ITR vs. RX-7

e r i c s 9 9 s i · Post by **e r i c s 9 9 s i** » August 26th, 2003, 1:01 pm

Of course theres gonna be some bias opinions on here since this is a ITR forum, though I have some questions regarding the two cars. I'm looking into buying a CW 01 Canadian Spec R ideally within the next year or so and I was wondering how the ITR handles against the 93-95 Mazda RX-7's. I currently had a freeway run in with a TT RX-7 and the Mazda could not outrun me persay on the hwy, though I couldn't pass him either so ideally we were pretty much equally compared on the FWY from 80mph on up in speed (even though he's TT boosted, and I was running a I/E on a facotry JDM R motor). There's discussion on my forum (http://sirrommotorsports.com/forum/show ... eadid=2118) about how I should get a RX-7 or a "super car" they put it such as a Supra, 3000GT VR-4, 300Z over my always dreamed ITR. I currently have a B18C-R in my 99 Civic Coupe Si, though its not the real overall thing... I want a R!!! Can any of you ITR people give me some proven or personal comparison facts between the two cars? How will the R handle compared to the RX-7 (both factory form) and how will it accellerate compared to the 93-95 RX-7 (again in factory form)? I know with turbo upgrades the RX-7 would be the faster of the two, but technically the R isn't made to be the "faster" of the two cars, it's designed to be a quick, yet handling track car.

kabob · Post by **kabob** » August 26th, 2003, 6:58 pm

Man, almost any RWD car with sporting aspirations is a better handler than the majority of FWD vehicles. I'm selling my R next year for some rear-drive goodness

As for the RX-7 specifically compared to the R, no contest the Rex is a much superior handling beast. RWD, low roll center, limited-slip differential, only 2800 lbs. with 255 hp... the list goes on. Just look at the AutoX designations: the ITR is in D Stock and the FD3S RX-7 is placed in SS (highest stock category).

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » September 2nd, 2003, 10:48 am

While I haven't owned an RX7, I did drive one, and it's speed seemed fairly comparable to the R, though definitely way more torque down low. It had Koni Shocks and Ground Control springs I think, lowered maybe 1", and it was solid, no bodyroll whatsoever but still comfortable. The brakes were nice too, though I didn't get a chance to try them out like on my R. Some of the things to consider in the decision are reliability and utility. The RX7 has been known to be not the most reliable sports car out there, especially when modified improperly, whereas Rs are pretty damn good in that respect. Also, you'll have trouble transporting much of anything other than one other person in the 7, whereas the R has at least an excuse of a rear seat and a reasonable rear cargo area. That being said, some day when I have the money for building a reliable 13B, I'll be getting an RX7, though probably as an addition to the R, not as a replacement.

One other thought, you referred to the Supra, 3000GT VR4 and 300ZX as "supercars," but not the 7. I'd say given similar mods the 7 will easily hang with the Supra on the straights, and will definitely pound its ass into the ground through the corners. The VR4 is a pig BECAUSE of the awd, and the 300ZX was pretty tame (IMO) in stock form, and had problems with overheating to boot. I'd take the 7 over any of those in a heartbeat.

Post by **Dave-ROR** » September 2nd, 2003, 12:40 pm

It'll depend on the track. Both have their strong points. On Sebring they are about equal on the long course but in my experience the ITR can get a bit quicker on the 'club course'.. but then it wasn't the same driver so :shrug:. I've passed modified 3rd gens in my GS-R before too though, so driver experience/etc is going to play a part in any 'real world' comparison.

Personally, I like the 3rd gen more for a track car, but then I don't care much for FWD anyways..

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » September 5th, 2003, 12:48 pm

If you are an average driver with no real RWD experience at the highest level, you would be hard pressed to beat an ITR with the RX7, track depending.
The ITR is so easy and user friendly at the limit and it can be pushed right from the get go. Whereas the RX needs a confident experienced driver to extract the best.

Yes indeed at the national level Autocross events the top drivers in RX7 beat the tops in ITR's but in every day driving with every day people, the ITR is hard to beat.

Post by **Dave-ROR** » September 5th, 2003, 4:27 pm

bbqman wrote:If you are an average driver with no real RWD experience at the highest level, you would be hard pressed to beat an ITR with the RX7, track depending.
The ITR is so easy and user friendly at the limit and it can be pushed right from the get go. Whereas the RX needs a confident experienced driver to extract the best.

I'm going to have to disagree on some of that.

An ITR at the limit in the hands of a inexperienced driver can result in spinning the car, rolling it, etc. Most all inexperienced drivers will lift if the car starts to slide. To drive a FWD car fast you have to be even more confident IMO assuming the FWD car is setup "correctly".

At least IMO RWD is easier to control. Perhaps that is just me though. :shrug:

Bbasso · Post by **Bbasso** » September 9th, 2003, 4:15 pm

Just keep one thing in mind, the age of the RX7 and the age of an ITR.
that should be a big factor in buying any car, time alone can kill a car.

As for the RX7, I love them and would have owned one but could not find the right one and went with the ITR.

Btw I have owned 2 first gen RX7s- great cars with so much potential.

Wai · Post by **Wai** » September 9th, 2003, 5:13 pm

The RX7 is definitely a faster all-around car than the ITR stock vs stock with same driver. But finding a well taken care RX7 is hard, even if it's stock, the motor requires a rebuild after a relatively low mileage (includes all seals and vacuum hoses).

Don't assume that the ones taken care by the dealer would be "ok". Those are the worst since there's almost NO qualified mechanics who could work on a rotary engine. 7 owners always say, if an RX7 is brought into the dealer for major service, it would most likely die there.

All information is according to my friend, who owned an FD and is the admin of the 7 forum so his source is pretty reliable.

http://www.rx7club.com/

Chris N · Post by **Chris N** » September 12th, 2003, 2:47 pm

e r i c s 9 9 s i wrote:I currently had a freeway run in with a TT RX-7 and the Mazda could not outrun me persay on the hwy, though I couldn't pass him either so ideally we were pretty much equally compared on the FWY from 80mph on up in speed (even though he's TT boosted, and I was running a I/E on a facotry JDM R motor).

I'm confused. Talking about freeway runs yet asking which car is a better track car. :Shrug:

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » October 7th, 2003, 12:18 pm

I'm gonna guess he's using that as the only comparison he's personally experienced. He doesn't sound like the typical idiot street-racer thinking he's "road racing." What do you think, original poster, am I wrong?

Brusso · Post by **Brusso** » October 20th, 2003, 5:58 pm

I looked deep into this also befor i built my dream car... ( look at sig.) The bottom line for me was the dependability of the rx7 . As stated earlier, their are very few people who know how to properly work on this beast... Tri-point is the only one i trust.. even then , with a fully built motor the seals will need rebuilding every 50-60K miles... no mater what.
On top of that my buddy is one of the best honda motor builders in the state and the hook up was to good to pass up... If you do decide to get one get the R1 only....and look for a stock one driven by an old man. Their are lots of them in Cali. lol.[/img][/url]

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » October 20th, 2003, 6:22 pm

I think I'd shoot for an R2 actually, I remember hearing something about the gaskets on the pre-'94 7s rotting away. If I couldn't find one of those though, yeah, R1. Touring? Who needs a touring model with a car like that? Like a touring model Type R...ugh...

Brusso · Post by **Brusso** » October 20th, 2003, 11:42 pm

Another problem with the 7 is the AC.... don't know if you actually want to use it... but if you do it uses the old stuff that is really expensive to get... what ever they call it... and 7's had a tendency have ac lines go bad.... it is a 10 year old car though...

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 20th, 2003, 11:57 pm

Brusso wrote:Another problem with the 7 is the AC.... don't know if you actually want to use it... but if you do it uses the old stuff that is really expensive to get... what ever they call it... and 7's had a tendency have ac lines go bad.... it is a 10 year old car though...

uhmm convert it from R20 to R134a. Takes a few minutes and you can easily do it yourself. minus getting the lines vacuumed.

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » October 21st, 2003, 12:31 am

Yep, that costs, what, $25-30? There are infinitely larger problems than dealing with old AC, not to bust on your criticism or anything.

Brusso · Post by **Brusso** » October 21st, 2003, 4:41 pm

Good to know.... i might have to go get one now.....

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » October 21st, 2003, 7:59 pm

Heh heh heh, hey man, when you want one real bad, it's easy to have "fixes" for relatively minor problems. In that way, you're one step closer to convincing yourself that it really is ok to buy a car that you most likely should not even be looking at.

Brusso · Post by **Brusso** » October 21st, 2003, 8:31 pm

TRUE.... that's what i keep telling myself everytime i stop at the bmw dealer and look at the M3's.... Don't get me wrong i love my teg especially now that it's done and i will always keep it... my son wont mind driving a 500 hp car when he's 16

but that m3 is the best daily driver i have driven even when compared to the 2002 porsche twin turbo... can you believe that !!!

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » October 22nd, 2003, 11:03 am

I think what it comes down to is that one car just isn't enough. I'd love to have a well-tuned RX7, a nice daily driver E36 M3, my R for the track, a turbo'ed GC8 Impreza for some rally action, and something ridiculous for the occasional drag strip run. Oh, and a pickup truck to haul everything when they break down

. I'm not in the financial position that I can do that, so the R is a pretty decent compromise.

On a sidenote, yes, the Beamers have it for the daily drivers selection. I'd imagine they'd tear it up pretty nicely on the track as well, but I can't speak from experience. I just know every one I've driven was so comfy and luxurious, it would definitely be something I could stand having every day.

Back to the subject (sorta) I just read the latest issue of Turbo and it had an article on the workings of a rotary engine. I knew the basics about its operation previously, but having some detailed photos definitely helped my understanding of it. A good read for anyone who's interested.

Type R 98 · Post by **Type R 98** » November 29th, 2003, 1:14 pm

I love those Rx-7's and they rank in first as far as sub 50k car handeling (better than stock supra) Type R comes in 3rd from some magazine tests... i chose ITR for Honda Accessories and reliability. If you want to keep your car stock and stop lying to your insurance, you need something more exotic:)

i would rather have a 911 gt than an m3 cuz a car that has a purpose to go fast needs to be like a type R, PURE..
who needs extra seats if it's not to carry family? i say m3 for family compromise, porsche 911 gt for a fast car with no weight compromises and carbon fiber seats

Brusso · Post by **Brusso** » December 4th, 2003, 12:44 am

I wo

uld have said porsche gt 3 also .... but I wanted to stick to cars that were within the grasp of the average joe....

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » December 5th, 2003, 12:34 am

Yeah, Porsche territory is sort of...not in the scope of this discussion. And just to clarify, you said Porsche 911 GT. Which model are you actually referring to, as there is no "GT". There's the GT2 and GT3 available currently, there was a GT1, though I don't know if that was street legal or even available in the US. There's also the 911 Turbo, which is the basest of the hopped up models. Oh hell, who am I kidding, any of them would be fine.

Erik B · Post by **Erik B** » February 7th, 2004, 4:24 pm

Here's my comparison:

RX-7@16psi
3mm apex seals
street ported
3" downpipe
3" midpipe (no cats)
3" Blitz NUR-spec catback
A'pex-i front mount
A'pex-i hard pipes
A'pex-i intake
A'pex-i Power FC stand-alone EMS w/ commander
Fluidyne radiator w/ twin 12" fans
GReddy racing spark plugs, #11 leading, #9 trailing
ACT clutch
air pump removal
stock twin turbos - non sequential
GReddy Profec-B specII boost controller w/ remote switching
GReddy turbo timer

VS

TypeR@9psi
T3/T04e Turbo
Rev Hard Manifold
TiAL Wastegate (.3 bar)
HKS SSQ BOV
XS Engeenering Intercooler
Custom down pipe 2 1/2" to 3"
Walbro Intank Fuel Pump
Hondata s200b
Greddy 720cc injectors
Power Extreme 2, 3" Turbo-back
ACT-AI4-XT SS Clutch kit
Hondata intake manifold gasket

=RX7 getting his ass handed to him on a 40mph roll on the higway

FDTT · Post by **FDTT** » February 18th, 2004, 2:27 am

Stock vs atock the RX7 will kill you on the track and in the speed area. They are killer cars. I have videos of RX7s killing skylines, ITR's, and a GTO. They are very well designed cars. But as for which one to get i would get the ITR i fi was not very mechanicly inclined and knew alot of information on the rotary motor.

Ive benn looking to get an RX7 for the past few months. I work in a shop that specializes in 7s and its quite suprising how little people know about the engine. If you would rather have a day to day driver get the ITR. It will be much more reliable for you, has great potential, looks awsome, and can handle great.

Good luck with your choice, and it you have any questions about RX7's dont hesitate to ask.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » February 18th, 2004, 10:13 pm

At least IMO RWD is easier to control. Perhaps that is just me though. :shrug:

Oh sure - you handled the nissan truckster real well

ITRCA

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