Toda or Skunk Cams?

[alex b]

hi all, im new so take it easy on me for now

ive noticed a lot of my friends talking about how wonderful toda cams are, so now im wondering what the main differences between the Toda Billet Cams and the skunk2 stg.2 cams is? and help is appreciated.

[pUrExTc]

I don't know the main difference, but, if you have an ITR, I'd go with Toda, since they specifically make cams for the ITR.

[Trey]

This is a very good question.

Here are my thoughts. SPec A's don't make enough power, Spec B's break timing belts, Spec C's don't idle.

I think SPec B's are the way to go but I want a cam that can use a stock timing belt.

Skunk2's seem to be making very usable power for a lot less cost. AJ can better elaborate since he is using skunk2's but power per dollar the skunk2's are probably they way to go.

That being said Todas do have a sense of bling about them and skunk2's still carry a stigma of riceboy parts in some cases so it makes the choice that much more difficult. I would say something else to look into are Jun 3 cams.

[Aj]

This is a very good question.

Here are my thoughts. SPec A's don't make enough power, Spec B's break timing belts, Spec C's don't idle.

I think SPec B's are the way to go but I want a cam that can use a stock timing belt.

Skunk2's seem to be making very usable power for a lot less cost. AJ can better elaborate since he is using skunk2's but power per dollar the skunk2's are probably they way to go.

I would tend to agree with almost all of that, with the exception of the Spec-B breaking belts, I have still yet to see any one of the several people I know running them break a timing belt. Though if I do, you guys will be the first to know. As far as the Spec-C and Idling problems, the idle is a tad messy, but really not all that bad, if you bump up your idle a couple hundred RPMs, it's really not all that noticable.

As far as Skunk2 Stage-2 cams, they're not all that expensive, in fact almost two hundred dollars less a cam then the Todas. Not to mention they run well and make power throughout the RPM band, and not just at higher RPMs like the Toda or JUN.

If you're looking for the name more so then getting performance, the cam to get, that really makes power is the Toda Spec-C, but just remember, that you need some major compression(12:1 or higher) for those huge cams, not to mention being very careful about piston to valve clearance!!!!!!! If you're willing to forgo the name but still want the big power, look into the Skunk2 stage-3, it has very similar duration, and I think even bigger lift. When you get into cams with a lift larger then 12.3mm, you start to run into clearance issues, so be careful who you let work on your car, and later who you let tune your cam gears.

I swear by my skunk2 stage-2, they've made me very happy so far, and I really havn't heard of any problems with them from others. It's more cam then most people will ever need, and surely a good place to start.

Good luck, later!!!!

[alex b]

cool guys, thanks for the responses.

i totally agree with TODA having the bling factor. it seems they have this prestige concerning their products. the one thing i never see anyone mentioning about TODA is what effect they have on emissions, because i dont want to have to take them out every year to pass smog.. and skunk2 has been touting the carb exemption thing lately.

decisions..decisions...

[hYpE-R-29]

AJ--Just wondering about your experiences with your Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, any idling problems? Plus I heard they are not a complete fit?..Also you mentioned you recieve power all throughout the RPM band, is it noticeable or only after 6000rpm.

Thnx

[Aj]

AJ--Just wondering about your experiences with your Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, any idling problems? Plus I heard they are not a complete fit?..Also you mentioned you recieve power all throughout the RPM band, is it noticeable or only after 6000rpm.

Thnx

After a bit of tunning, I got the car top idle just fine, it sounds a bit different from stock, but other than that, there really isn't a hell of a difference.

I'm not sure what you mean by complete fit, but we put them, and they fit just fine, and in fact I've put in, I'd say like 10-15 sets of the stage one, 3 or four of the stage 2, and one of the stage 3, which actually, the car they went into got into a mag for them.

And as far as after 6000rpms, I really must say, the part I noticed more immediately was the lower rpm torque, and HP I got.

On one of our cars with the stage 2 cams, a millled head (30 thousandths), springs, retainers, cam gears, IHE, and a couple other bolt ons, we managed to get as much as 39whp before the v-tech crossover which was actually at 5400 rpms which we accomplished by moving up the v-tech crossover, between 1200 and 5400 we made an averagre of a 18 whp increase. Through V-tech we made an additional 22-28 whp, beleive it or not dropping off until after 9500 rpms.

I'm not saying the cams were the only thing that made power, but we took a car that make 156.7whp and pulled it up to make 192.8 whp.

If you guys are interested, email me, and I wouldn't mind suplying a list of mods and what tunning tricks we did.

[Erik B]

B's strip the teeth onTiming belts. I have the B's and I wasn't aware of this till I had a tech look at my car cuz there was ticking nosie coming from under the hood. I thought it was my values but I had just got then adjusted. He looked at my timing belt and the teeth were starting to come off. I replaced the belt ASAP then started to do some research on them and see if anyone else had this problem and sure enough they did. Thats when I found out about the stronger timimng belt but it was to late I had already but a new OEM on.....and it was the same amont of money.... Anyway next time I change my belt I'm changing it too the stronger belt. (if I don't find someone to buy my Cams and Gears)

[Aj]

B's strip the teeth onTiming belts.

I think you mean the cam gears you run chip the teeth on timing belts, because, your cams, in no way actually touch your timing belt. I still don't see how those cams everyone says snap timing belts?????

Any way, when you replaced the belt, did the ticking go away, and has it come back yet???

My car has made a strange tick for a while now, and for a long time I worried about it, but I got fed up with worying, and after replacing the entire valve train, the actual head it-self, bottom end, and timing belt, not to mention a bunch of other stuff, I've still not been able to get it to go away, so I believe it's just from the cams, and the fact that I run stainless steel valves. Don't really know. Any way, good luck selling your Toda B's

Later,
Aj

[Trey]

Only major post I can find about it right now but not the only one I have read. Plus this one is a fairly credible post compare to most.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=295152

[Erik B]

Nope still there. I don't thin it will go away. Also the cams don't directly touch the timing belt.....I know that but the reason it strips the belt is because of the stran the cams put on the gears which touch the belt.........they indirectly strip timing belts. You can run cam gears on stock cams and they wont strip it.

[Aj]

Nope still there. I don't thin it will go away. Also the cams don't directly touch the timing belt.....I know that but the reason it strips the belt is because of the stran the cams put on the gears which touch the belt.........they indirectly strip timing belts. You can run cam gears on stock cams and they wont strip it.

Reason I ask, is becuase my car makes a strange ticking noise, that I described in my last post, and I got all new internals, the only thing I didn't replace was my cams, but I havn't snapped a timing belt, or even noticed any unussual ware.

I'm going to post something on the forums to see if anyone who has the same problem has ever found out what it is, because it's not just coming from the cam gear side on my car, it's just a little bit louder all togather. I'm thinking it just may be the sound that high lift cams make in a B-series motor....??????

Dunno, hope someone has figured it out......

Later,
Aj

[Erik B]

I'm thinking it just may be the sound that high lift cams make in a B-series motor....??????


That's what I think it is man.

[typerbob]

FYI-Toda B's and C's have the same primary lobes. If you can make B's idle, you can make C's idle. If B's are breaking timing belts, C's will break the same belts even faster if all other variables are the same and you are on the VTEC lobes the same amount of time.

[2XS]

check the plastic cover behind your cam gears for that ticking noise...I had a strange somewhat faint noise comming from mind, tood a long while but eventually I traced it to the peice of plastic rubbing on my cam gear, behind the cam gear

[Aj]

That's happened to me before, but I know what that tick sounds like, and after now replacing my injectors with larger 420cc, the tick went away, so I'm assuming it was the injectors working over time.....

Later,
Aj