S turns?

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » February 4th, 2003, 6:26 pm

This is a completely stupid question, but I can't figure it out. Near my house there's a little back road (EC people, it's off of Main Street in old EC, you may know what I'm talking about). Anyway, that's my test/practice road, as it has just about any kind of turn you can imagine (with the unfortunate exception of hairpins), elevation changes, a noticeable lack of population, and most of the road has been recently repaved. Getting to the point, there's a pretty tight S curve near the one end of the road, and I'm not sure of the proper line to take through it. I've tried many different ones, but they all seem to be not so good and upset the balance of the car at the exit. Any help?

97 TYPE-R 312 · Post by **97 TYPE-R 312** » February 10th, 2003, 2:35 am

track experience ma boy...track experience! You won't be dissapointed. Give it time and you will see, feel and understand what it's all about.

-Victor

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » February 10th, 2003, 6:56 pm

General rule of thumb....keep it on the track if your gonna go fast.

But if it were a racetrack situation, the general concensus is ' in slow and out fast'. Meaning sacrifice your entry speed to set up for a quick exit. This especially holds true for esses leading on to a long straight. It can be taken conversely if a long staight ends in esses. If the entry and exit are similar, slow in and fast out will help you stabilize the car quicker thus power down faster.

Hope to see you at the Expo, it will be the place to learn.

97 TYPE-R 312 · Post by **97 TYPE-R 312** » February 10th, 2003, 11:30 pm

well put!

-Victor

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » February 11th, 2003, 10:58 am

Cool, thanks bbqman and victor. I am also an advocate of keeping it on the track, and even on that road, I keep myself well within control. It just wouldn't be worth it to hurt myself (came close enough once) or even worse, someone else, just to go fast. Especially after hearing stories like the one about that kid in the S2000 in Philly...yikes. Yeah, one accident is enough to open your eyes. Now if I could just find a big bag of money to pay for all my track days...

97 TYPE-R 312 · Post by **97 TYPE-R 312** » February 11th, 2003, 3:50 pm

GREAT! Glad you are focused on that and play it safe.

Thanks,
Victor

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » February 13th, 2003, 7:11 pm

Are you coming to the EXPO? Will be the place to play, especially with an ITR.

Can't wait.

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » February 14th, 2003, 10:10 am

Hell yeah, I'm coming, I can't wait. First REAL track day for me too, after that another in May at Summit Point.

kabob · Post by **kabob** » February 23rd, 2003, 7:03 pm

Try to reduce your understeer as much as you can. Don't enter the turn too fast and cut as close to the inside of your turns (what's known as "cutting the apex") and then drift wide on the exits of your turns for extra speed at the exit.

You're gonna laugh, but play more Grand Turismo 3 and pay attention to the licensing tests. They offer real-world advice in proper racing technique

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » February 23rd, 2003, 7:38 pm

I've tried applying Gran Turismo 3 techniques to the road, like the line to take and all, and I agree, it seems to be applicable in most situations. The problem with this particular S-turn is that it's on a public two lane road, so I can't really cut the apex, or I'd be on the wrong side of the road. I had heard (maybe from GT3, maybe someone else) for an S-turn, go easy on the first apex, like don't push hard for that one, but set yourself up for the second one so you have a higher exit speed.

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » February 25th, 2003, 2:52 pm

Here's another line question, considering the different oversteer/understeer characteristics between fwd, rwd, and awd, is the line any different depending on drive configuration? I've heard that for awd you should enter a corner at a higher angle, but I have no idea what that means or how true it is. Any thoughts?

up_pae · Post by **up_pae** » March 6th, 2003, 1:49 am

Your question would be a lot easier to answer if you had an accurate drawing or even a picture of the turns and the roadway before and after the turns. The answer to your question really depends on what type of turns are just before and just after the "S" turns. For example, let's say that there is a long straight just before the first "S" turn and a bunch of slow-speed, tight turns just after the last "S" turn. You would want to maximize your speed from the straight by braking very late at the end of the straight, which will probably necessitate a later apex on the first "S" turn. In this example, you're carrying as much speed as possible for as long as possible and giving up what might be the "proper" line for the first "S" turn.

Another example: let's say that preceding the first "S" turn are a bunch of slow-speed, tight turns, and there is a long straight after the last "S" turn. In this example, you want to carry as much speed out of the last "S" turn so that you can maximize the amount of momentum you have down the straight. To properly exit the last "S" turn before the straight, you may have to go slower than could otherwise be possible on the entry to the first "S".

So, in short, my point is: the correct line for each turn should be considered in the context of the immediately preceding and following turns.

And, don't forget that lines frequently change while you are in a real race ("defensive line" vs. "proper line").

I hope this helps.

P.

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » March 6th, 2003, 3:07 am

Yes, thanks P, that does help. I'll try to take a picture of a drawing of the turn and the turns before and after it (no scanner here). Part of what makes entering difficult is the preceding part, which is a straight downhill, then a slight right curve, then the S-turn begins to the left. You'll see tomorrow, I'll post it up.

Reid · Post by **Reid** » May 14th, 2003, 2:40 pm

sscguy wrote:Yes, thanks P, that does help. I'll try to take a picture of a drawing of the turn and the turns before and after it (no scanner here). Part of what makes entering difficult is the preceding part, which is a straight downhill, then a slight right curve, then the S-turn begins to the left. You'll see tomorrow, I'll post it up.

Now that you have done track days, don't you no longer feel a need to drive in such a way on the street that risks your life, the lives of others and risks getting in trouble with the law?

It's just not worth it.

Please keep it on the track.

sscguy · Post by **sscguy** » May 14th, 2003, 4:28 pm

I'm not street racing Reid, nor am I pushing it to the limit or anywhere close. When I say I was practicing the line, I wasn't actually driving the "track line", as if I were on the track, I was staying on my side of the road and reasonably within the speed limit. As I was driving this way though, I thought about how to do it properly, knowing that on the track would be a bit different, but the general concept would still be the same. I'm as much against street racing as the mods here, I certainly wouldn't be hypocritical and go and do it myself. My apologies for the confusion, I've just got track driving on the brain all the time, and I'm constantly trying to improve my own driving technique, so these questions come up.

ITRCA

S turns?

S turns?

s turns

"S" turns