A few questions

Type R 98 · Post by **Type R 98** » February 4th, 2003, 3:26 pm

hey! i was wondering if a V-AFC is the same thing as a hondata in terms of purpose? and if not, does the V-AFC work in addition to the hondata?

i also wanted to ask if Anyone heard about the Spoon 70? mm Type R throttle Body? Is it worth the mod? will i get much from in hooked to a AEM CAI?? if anyone knows, let me know! thanks alot all...

shivers · Post by **shivers** » February 5th, 2003, 10:24 am

Hondata and VAFC are not even in the same league. The VAFC lets you adjust the cam crossover and add/subtract fuel at 500 rpm increments. The Hondata does that and a whole lot more (timing, larger injector compensation, drag launch, full throttle shift, etc.).

If you've got basic mods (i/h/e), a VAFC will do just fine. But if you have big cams, boost, or extensive engine work ... a Hondata (or other stand alone ECU) is the engine management you need.

From what I've read, the Spoon TB is not 70mm straight through. The opening is 70mm and it tapers to the stock ITR TB size (62mm ... I think). Someone else may be able to confirm this. HTH.

Erik B · Post by **Erik B** » February 5th, 2003, 11:54 am

Thats true but even with cams I would still run a VAFC. For a FI car I would go with Hondata or any stand alone. If you have the money yeah Honda is the way to go.

paul98itr · Post by **paul98itr** » February 5th, 2003, 6:51 pm

The throttle body goes to 63mm(jdm)

Aj · Post by Aj » February 6th, 2003, 2:25 am

I run Hondata all motor, admitedly, with extensive modding, but all in all, for the base Hondata at $245, you can't beat the deal.

Paul is right about the TB it goes down to a 63mm bore, but honestly, you could get your Tb tapered by a local machine shop for a fraction of the price...

Any way, Hondata is well worth it, but just keep in mind, you'll need to find someone locally that sells them in addition to tunning it as well, otherwise you're sol. You may wanna do your homework before looking into buying either, the more you know, the better decision you'll be able to make.

Good luck,
Aj

Type R 98 · Post by **Type R 98** » February 6th, 2003, 3:59 am

thanks for the help everyone, i appreciate all the help i can get for futur mods, although only next year while my car is stored will i play a bit with those things, for the moment im still satisfied with the stock ecu

Erik B · Post by **Erik B** » February 6th, 2003, 10:20 am

Thats my point about Hondata being alot of money. Just to through a price out there Jotech Motorsports in Dallas will tune the Hondata for $500 so add that up. If you don't have any trust worthy tuners in the local area you will need to drive so add that trave money to the "base" hondata and your looking at alot of money. This is something someone new to the import tuning world should say away from till they have alot of engine mods and kinda knows whats going on....thats my whole point...but good luck either way.

Aj · Post by Aj » February 6th, 2003, 3:15 pm

I do agree about it being something that you should do for later on, it really is very involoving, and requires more than just the purchase of the unit, but the guys at Jotech must be talking about tunning the Hondata for boost as it does take quite a while. If you're using it for all motor most places charge about $300-$350 for tunning, which you're right is a bit exensive, but is worth it in the end. When you consider the drivability factor to it, in addition to being able to have full control of all your sensors, including being able to turn off both your o2's to take them out in order to run race gas, it just pays off in the long run.

Any way,
Later,
Aj

Type R 98 · Post by **Type R 98** » February 23rd, 2003, 7:40 pm

if i get my TB oversized, whats the size i should make it for it to be safe and assuming i want 370 cc injectors later on...

Aj · Post by Aj » February 23rd, 2003, 8:45 pm

Well, TB size really isn't a safety issue, it's more a matter of how much air you can actually suck in, before you overwhelm your car, and it takes too long to fill the plenum. Most all motor cars with a couple of exceptions run between a 64-68mm, some being flared from a 70mm down to what ever size they were running previous. You really don't need anything larger than a 68mm unless you're really pushing some huge cams(Toda Spec-D), and lots of compression(16:1), and even then 68mm is really big.

As far as injectors go, you really should decide your size based on your mods, rather than basing your mods on your injector size, you'll get a lot further that way.

In any case, good luck,
Aj

Post by **Trey** » February 25th, 2003, 9:06 am

Erik B wrote:Thats my point about Hondata being alot of money. Just to through a price out there Jotech Motorsports in Dallas will tune the Hondata for $500 so add that up. If you don't have any trust worthy tuners in the local area you will need to drive so add that trave money to the "base" hondata and your looking at alot of money. This is something someone new to the import tuning world should say away from till they have alot of engine mods and kinda knows whats going on....thats my whole point...but good luck either way.

Let's not leave out the $100-$150 for a P28 ECU and the $200 for a OBD1 harness just to use the S100 hondata system. Now you have to pay someone everytime you need it tuned.

This said to answer the direct question, yes Hondata and VAFC have the same general purpose. That said, the hondata does WAY more.

Hondata is a great system but I personally just can't see getting one and buying the S100 base system. I would certainly get the S200 system for it's upgradeability and then you just upped the cost more.

If you want to do bolt on's and even mild cams a VAFC is more than enough and is easy to learn to tune all for a cheap price.

Trey

Aj · Post by Aj » February 25th, 2003, 11:05 am

That may be tru, but wanting any tunability in our cars, you will need to buy an OBD1 ecu and conversion harness, otherwise you will be stuck at stock redline, with many of the OBD2 restrictions on top of that.

As far as the S100 vs, the S200, unless you plan to run boost at a later time, then is really no point in getting the S200, and, yes, it may be upgradeable, but unless you are extremely serious about road racing, the only options to upgrade are datalogging and that G-chip, and as interesting as they both are, both are very un-necesary.

In any case, the Hondata is more expensive, but what you pay extra, you get in tunability and drivability...

Later,
Aj

Type R 98 · Post by **Type R 98** » February 25th, 2003, 1:52 pm

well as far as bolt ons i have pretty much every one of them and im putting my car in long term storage to keep it under 100 000 km's for another couple years and drive another car, that way itll be really rare when i bring it back out, and then ill probably snap on a mugen jdm front end and mugen mf-10 bronze rims and make a nice mugen style Type R. That means ill need the mugen valve cover(just for the look), and ill be upgrading probably the valve train to ferrea valves, valve springs, valve retainers, at the same time and skunk 2 stage 2 cams with skunk 2 cam gears like you guys, with the hondata well tuned and new pistons.. engine rebored to 84 mm... so im saving up my insurance money per year to put that 10 k on my car in 2 years, so not driving it for a big sacrifice;) should run near 12:1 compression right? thanks for the help, im getting my shit together cuz i wanna know exactly what i want when i need it and i'm not gonna do it twice, ill probably never sell that car since it can end up a race track only car... there you got the big plan, hows it sound?

Post by **Trey** » February 25th, 2003, 4:50 pm

Aj wrote:That may be tru, but wanting any tunability in our cars, you will need to buy an OBD1 ecu and conversion harness, otherwise you will be stuck at stock redline, with many of the OBD2 restrictions on top of that.

As far as the S100 vs, the S200, unless you plan to run boost at a later time, then is really no point in getting the S200, and, yes, it may be upgradeable, but unless you are extremely serious about road racing, the only options to upgrade are datalogging and that G-chip, and as interesting as they both are, both are very un-necesary.

In any case, the Hondata is more expensive, but what you pay extra, you get in tunability and drivability...

Later,
Aj

No arguments on the Hondata info.

I have to say that OBD2 isn't that much of a hinderance to a VAFC and someone with a stock cams and valvetrain or even something like Skunk2 Stage1 or Toda A's doesn't really need to raidse the rev limit. It will only hold a few more hundred RPMs safely anyway regardless of what the cams will do.

This should be a consideration IMO.

Aj · Post by Aj » February 25th, 2003, 7:15 pm

tru dat......

TyPeRChArGeR · Post by **TyPeRChArGeR** » March 3rd, 2003, 6:03 pm

I have a hondata stage 3 but I want to keep it. However, the person I had tune it had tuned it all wrong for my setup. Since he didnt have my car there because I was out of state he had to just give me a base program. Also do to the fact of where I live no one in my town or state can tune a hondata. Since dyno tuning is the only way I can get my power I have to change to the AEM EMS because the person in my town knows that system and has the dyno. Unforuately, if I were to keep the hondata he wants to charge me for the time to learn the system.

Aj · Post by Aj » March 4th, 2003, 5:07 am

Well, in order to tune the system, all you need is a chip burner and the Hondata software, which on hondata's website, I think is like four hundred bucks and change. Assuming he has all that already, which he must have if he burned you a chip, it should, unless of course he's a total retard, take him no more than about 25 mins to figure out the hondata system, it trully is very simple, and in fact is extremely similar to most other systems, such as the AEM EMS for example, and for refference, it's almost identical to programming an E-prom chip. Hell, if I can figure it out in 20 mins, then so can he. Also, Hondata gives tunning tips on their website, and if that's not enough for him, you could call Hondata your self, ask for Matt, and explain your situation, and just ask him to give you a quick crash course over the phone or via email. Don't let the guy take all your money, ask him how long it'll take him to learn the system before he starts, make sure the price is agreed upon, and then go from there, and on a side note, you shouldn't pay any more than about $600 to tune it, which includes a lot of time learning the system, assuming you want it tunned for boost. For all motor, you can knock off a hundred or two...

For the price of an AEM EMS you could have your car shipped roud-trip to the nearest place that tunes hondata and still have enough money left over to buy some kool parts for your car.

Where are you located by the way???? You might be surprised how many hondata tunners there are that aren't listed on their website...

Later,
Aj

Beasty18C5 · Post by **Beasty18C5** » March 4th, 2003, 7:44 pm

How does the AEM engine managment compare to Hondata?
All I read is about Hondata does any one use AEM I know there is 2 different versions but I haven't heard anyone talk about this out there so is there anyone??

Aj · Post by Aj » March 5th, 2003, 12:11 am

Well, the AEM is a knock off of the Motech system, which is pretty nice, and it is in fact plug and play, which is also appealing. as far as tunability goes though, the hondata basically uses all the factory program sequences and what not, so it really is a better integrated system, not to mention being a lot less expensive....the Hondata is the way to go if you ask me, but if you have money to toss around, the AEM is nice too.

Later,
Aj

TyPeRChArGeR · Post by **TyPeRChArGeR** » March 10th, 2003, 10:10 pm

Aj wrote:Well, in order to tune the system, all you need is a chip burner and the Hondata software, which on hondata's website, I think is like four hundred bucks and change. Assuming he has all that already, which he must have if he burned you a chip, it should, unless of course he's a total retard, take him no more than about 25 mins to figure out the hondata system, it trully is very simple, and in fact is extremely similar to most other systems, such as the AEM EMS for example, and for refference, it's almost identical to programming an E-prom chip. Hell, if I can figure it out in 20 mins, then so can he. Also, Hondata gives tunning tips on their website, and if that's not enough for him, you could call Hondata your self, ask for Matt, and explain your situation, and just ask him to give you a quick crash course over the phone or via email. Don't let the guy take all your money, ask him how long it'll take him to learn the system before he starts, make sure the price is agreed upon, and then go from there, and on a side note, you shouldn't pay any more than about $600 to tune it, which includes a lot of time learning the system, assuming you want it tunned for boost. For all motor, you can knock off a hundred or two...

For the price of an AEM EMS you could have your car shipped roud-trip to the nearest place that tunes hondata and still have enough money left over to buy some kool parts for your car.

Where are you located by the way???? You might be surprised how many hondata tunners there are that aren't listed on their website...

Later,
Aj

Well, unforuately, I live in anchorage, alaska and their are no hondata tuners at all and their is only one dyno in the state. Also, the person with the dyno only sells HKS F-CON and AEM EMS for engine management. However, I was told that hondata was a pretty easy system to learn. I'm pretty sure he could learn real quick its just that he wants me to buy one of his systems instead. He also stated that if I did use one of his systems he could almost gurantee hp of where my setup should be at. Using the hondata he said he cant gurantee anything. The person out of state that I had program my hondata with just gave me a base program off one of his that had a similar setup as mine. My setup is for all-motor by the way. Thanks for the tips I'll have to call hondata and ask them for tuning software.

Aj · Post by Aj » March 11th, 2003, 3:58 pm

Kool, good luck with it. And, just as a point of refference, although he may not garauntee hp on a Hondata, if you look at the worlds fastes all motor honda, which is owned by Erick Aguilar, he runs hondata on his, and to the best of my knowledge, I think he ran a 10.27 and 124, or something along those lines....check out their website, ericksracing.com

Later and good luck,
Aj

Aj · Post by Aj » March 11th, 2003, 4:00 pm

Hey, also, I forgot to mention, if you want, I can send you a copy of my chip as well, I'm not sure that we have the same setups, but if you want to try it, you're more than welcome to.....or I can just email it to you.

Later,
Aj

ITRCA

A few questions

A few questions

thanks

and

alright