ABS Removal

ITR325 · Post by **ITR325** » April 30th, 2007, 8:20 am

Anybody have experience??

Bbasso · Post by **Bbasso** » April 30th, 2007, 9:19 am

I actually like it... and don't see a true need to take it out.

ITR325 · Post by **ITR325** » April 30th, 2007, 10:37 am

I have tracked this car serveral times at TT events and I have yet to get the ABS to kick in. I am turning the car into a dedicated track car so I am shedding unwanted weight.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » April 30th, 2007, 1:21 pm

Most remove the wheel sensor (zip tie it out of the way). There are lots of other things to remove for weight reduction. The ABS is only 12 lbs, which isn't much more than the non-abs brake setup anyway.

I still need to do that...forgot to last time.

I can't recall ever having it kick in the track though. Hoosiers are sticky enough, the wheel will keep turning.

soulassassin13 · Post by **soulassassin13** » April 30th, 2007, 4:55 pm

I have to agree I have never had ABS kick in at the track. ITR brakes generate a little too much braking torque without it kicking in.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » May 1st, 2007, 7:52 am

soulassassin13 wrote:I have to agree I have never had ABS kick in at the track. ITR brakes generate a little too much braking torque without it kicking in.

Come to think of it...I can't remember the last time anyone could outbrake the RRRRRR except other R's.

I thought for sure last month running with the other IT classes, that some of the lighter cars would be able to, but I was catching cars in braking AND cornering.

Man, I love this kaa!

cory25 · Post by **cory25** » May 3rd, 2007, 7:23 pm

What makes the brakes so good? is it the calipers or the brake system?
If put something like spoon calipers on stock gsr wood brake it better than an R?

soulassassin13 · Post by **soulassassin13** » May 4th, 2007, 12:17 am

Of course the Spoon calipers will brake better than a stock R's braking system. 4 piston vs. 2 piston... is the disc pad area larger? I really don't know the motivation for the brake upgrade? More information would be helpful.

cory25 · Post by **cory25** » May 4th, 2007, 2:41 am

I 'm not wanting a brake upgrade, myR's brakes are more than I need for the street. I was just wondering what honda did to make them so good.
Like are the calipers diff from a GSR's? they look the same as most other honda calipers what about them makes them stronger,or have more clamping power?

Erik95LS · Post by **Erik95LS** » May 4th, 2007, 2:45 am

soulassassin13 wrote:Of course the Spoon calipers will brake better than a stock R's braking system. 4 piston vs. 2 piston... is the disc pad area larger? I really don't know the motivation for the brake upgrade? More information would be helpful.

pad/rotor area is identical. There really isn't anymore braking force with the spoons, but you can modulate your pedal pressure a bit more easily.

Bbasso · Post by **Bbasso** » May 4th, 2007, 4:26 am

Erik95LS wrote: pad/rotor area is identical. There really isn't anymore braking force with the spoons, but you can modulate your pedal pressure a bit more easily.

Pefectly said.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » May 4th, 2007, 8:00 am

The overall issue with braking and the R is that honda put the combination together that works well.

Brakes don't function by themselves. Tires, suspension, etc all 'help' braking because rarely are you doing 'pure' braking in a straight line on the track if you want to be fast.

The R brakes modulate well. The front rotors are large for a 15" wheel, the abs system was redesigned to work very nicely for street tires, & rarely if ever kicks in with R compounds & good pads.

The suspension helps the car to rotate while modulating the brakes to create trail-braking opportunities when you become advanced & learn to drive in that mode...it is quicker.

There are plenty of upgrades that can be done to make it brake even better. However, most can simply upgrade pads and fluid & use the stock braking system to do better than 90% of the cars you will run against in an HPDE, and in many cases - even racing (SCCA IT classes don't allow caliper 'big-brake' upgrades).

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » May 22nd, 2007, 12:29 pm

I don't know. The stock brakes were always very competent in terms of stopping power but wouldn't last me the entire 20 minutes HPDE sessions even with racing pads (Hawk HP+) and upgraded brake fluid (rated at 600 degrees). The pads would wear out way too quickly and by 1/3 to half 1/2 pad left the feel would get spongy from excess heat. This has become a huge issue for me so I'm considering a Stoptech big brake kit. I only do track days and I run on Azenis but seeing how the brakes are making me lose confidence I think it's worth the investment.

So yes, stock is very nice but I have a lead foot for breaking, almost as heavy as my knack for gassing. Sorry to threadjack but does anyone have experience with Stoptech and does anyone know if I'll have issues with the ABS afterwards? Thank you.

walker111 · Post by **walker111** » May 22nd, 2007, 12:53 pm

2wheelsmoker wrote:I don't know. The stock brakes were always very competent in terms of stopping power but wouldn't last me the entire 20 minutes HPDE sessions even with racing pads (Hawk HP+) and upgraded brake fluid (rated at 600 degrees). The pads would wear out way too quickly and by 1/3 to half 1/2 pad left the feel would get spongy from excess heat. This has become a huge issue for me so I'm considering a Stoptech big brake kit. I only do track days and I run on Azenis but seeing how the brakes are making me lose confidence I think it's worth the investment.

So yes, stock is very nice but I have a lead foot for breaking, almost as heavy as my knack for gassing. Sorry to threadjack but does anyone have experience with Stoptech and does anyone know if I'll have issues with the ABS afterwards? Thank you.

I would worry about changing your driving style instead of the brakes.

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » May 22nd, 2007, 1:22 pm

walker111 wrote:
I would worry about changing your driving style instead of the brakes.

Duly noted. But instead of braking sooner isn't it more effective to upgrade the system to maximize the "stop"? I just don't like it when my brakes fade and I need more distance to slow down than the much heavier time-attack cars. I'm not trying to be too competitive but I feel my lighter car should stop as well as their sorted race cars.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » May 23rd, 2007, 8:32 am

2wheelsmoker wrote:
walker111 wrote:
I would worry about changing your driving style instead of the brakes.
Duly noted. But instead of braking sooner isn't it more effective to upgrade the system to maximize the "stop"? I just don't like it when my brakes fade and I need more distance to slow down than the much heavier time-attack cars. I'm not trying to be too competitive but I feel my lighter car should stop as well as their sorted race cars.

Pads and fluid are disposable items that you should expect to replace/upgrade if you are going to track a car. This shouldn't be looked upon as a 'defect' of the stock system. My theory is that 5-6 laps under any stock to stock brake system, the R will compete with just about anything. ESPECIALLY for a $24000 car.

Trust me, upgrading pads and fluid will get you to pop your eyeballs out of your head. I still vote GranSport the best I've ever run....better than Hawk and Cobalt (although Cobalt is a very close 2nd & Andie gives clients excellent service!).

FYI - I am paying for my brake pads from GranSport - I just like them enough, I wish more people would call Carl & order some. I took off hawk blues (my backup set) Saturday & put the new GS3's on. EXCELLENT!!

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » May 23rd, 2007, 12:04 pm

Haha, true. My eyeballs ARE popping out of my head. That's why I'm looking for durability, if that's even possible. I'll look into the GranSport pads and use them as my next set. I'm always open to recommendations and am very impressionable as I have no loyalty to any brand. At the end of the day, we're all just trying to have fun.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » May 23rd, 2007, 3:08 pm

go GranSport.

TracRacing.com is the place to order them from in Canada. Ask for Carl

FYI - he will be at the expo sharing my suite/garage since my wife & kid won't be there this year...sharing expenses is a beautiful thing.

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » May 23rd, 2007, 4:55 pm

Will do. I'm located in California so I won't be at expo but you guys sure seem like you know how to have fun. But seriously though, heat dissipation has never been an issue for you? Mine just get so hot from stopping and wear. It's no fun driving around for an extra 5 minutes after a session just to cool down the brakes.

Mary · Post by **Mary** » May 24th, 2007, 12:15 pm

Bbasso wrote:
Erik95LS wrote: pad/rotor area is identical. There really isn't anymore braking force with the spoons, but you can modulate your pedal pressure a bit more easily.
Pefectly said.

x2

Erik95LS · Post by **Erik95LS** » May 24th, 2007, 2:10 pm

2wheelsmoker wrote:Will do. I'm located in California so I won't be at expo but you guys sure seem like you know how to have fun. But seriously though, heat dissipation has never been an issue for you? Mine just get so hot from stopping and wear. It's no fun driving around for an extra 5 minutes after a session just to cool down the brakes.

nope. I can't see how one really would unless they were braking way to early and for too long. Even in 103deg heat I've never gotten any fade or worn pads prematurely. Might want to rethink your braking technique. Just a thought.

Comp97GSR · Post by **Comp97GSR** » May 24th, 2007, 6:08 pm

Jeff, how are the GranSports on the street? Just wondering if they are a good duel purpose pad.

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » June 4th, 2007, 5:12 pm

Where can I get more info on the GranSport GS3 pads? I've reached out to Carl at TracRacing but I'm looking for something like a manufacturer's website. I've only seem the GS6 pads for sale at tirerack.com but I haven't been able to find a description on the GS3 pads. Does GranSport not have a website?

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » June 5th, 2007, 8:13 am

2wheelsmoker wrote:Where can I get more info on the GranSport GS3 pads? I've reached out to Carl at TracRacing but I'm looking for something like a manufacturer's website. I've only seem the GS6 pads for sale at tirerack.com but I haven't been able to find a description on the GS3 pads. Does GranSport not have a website?

GranSport are manufactured by "Satisfied Motorsports". They sponsor shows like DreamCar Garage (Canadian Company - which is why they are just starting to show up in US).

FROM: http://www.satisfiedbrakes.com/motorsports/index.html

With a friction coefficient near or above 0.53 in its optimal temperature range of 400 – 1000°F, the GS3 Carbon Reinforced formulation delivers exceptional braking performance. The friction coefficient rises with operating temperature, responding to the demands of all racing applications using cast iron rotors and stock or custom calipers.
Widely tested and in demand by many professional drivers and teams, GS3 is an ideal brake formulation on its own or in combination with other GranSport compounds.

Treated to the same rigorous development protocol as all of the GranSport materials, GS3 boasts many of the same properties as the more aggressive GS1 and GS2. A quick glance at the performance chart proves that GS3 is a serious contender on the track.

Achieving a balance of aggressive racing performance, temperature range and less rotor abrasion has earned GS3 the praise and loyalty of a growing number of professional race teams, drivers and schools. GS3 also provides race-pedigree friction suitable for serious weekend racers and ultra-performance street applications. Remember that friction of this caliber places high performance demands on your brake system and will cause more wear on stock components such as rotors and calipers than conventional street performance compounds.

Contact Satisfied Motorsports or refer to the Racing/Performance application guide to design the friction solution suited to your vehicle, your driving style, and your desire to push the limits of performance.

--------

If you want to see my R braking as hard as I can with these, watch: http://www.nocoastracing.com/garage/Bud ... -16-06.wmv

2wheelsmoker · Post by **2wheelsmoker** » June 5th, 2007, 1:42 pm

Thanks Jeff,

Nice driving btw.