What Type Of Coilovers are Everybody Using

[RedKroovy]

I know this topic has been covered probaly too many times to count and at too many sites to count. But I was wondering what kind is everyone using I currently have H&R .75 on the R now and I am thinking about getting a set of Ground Contol Special Editions. All comments welcome.

[H.I.D's]

Awesome setup to start with by the way. It really depends on what your going to do. Street/strip or track. I have the Tein RE's on my car right now and they are barely budging for street use. But they make it handle like a dream. As you know, your gonna get a million different threads about coilover setup, but in my opinion Tein's are the way to go. Tein make so many kit's to choose from for are cars. For street use I would get the Flex coilovers. It's not such a radical coilover, but the spring rates are perfect for street and some track held events. I researched a lot before I bought my coilovers and I found that you can use the EDFC-electronic dampening controller on the RE kit. The cool thing about the Flex kit is it's compatiable using the EDFC. Another company that you might conisder looking into is JICsuspension ZEAL B6's I heard many ppl like those or something along the lines with upper-mount ball joints. But honestly with the amount of satisfaction I've had with my coilovers, Tein's are definetly the way to go.
Let me know what you pick out
Later!
-Jon

[Trey]

I am running Zeal Function B6's. Just Sold my TEIN HA's to make the change.

Both were good, the Zeals are that much better.

Trey

[Type R 98]

how do you guys feel about eiback on a Type R

[Aj]

Eibach makes ok coilovers, but not great by any stretch. They do make awesome springs, when I switched spring rates on my coilovers, I went with Eibach springs.

I run the Ohlins race coilovers, after having tried Apex-i N1, a couple different sets of tiens, a set of Konis (dont get em'), and a set of H&R, I finally stuck with the Ohlins, mainly just cause they have sooooo much travel, and the dampning really is superb. In the case of most coilovers that you can buy, the car tends to give before the strut, and that's no good, that's why the car feels like it's hitting a wall everytime you run over a pot hole or something, that's why I like my ohlins. Though as the saying goes, you need to pay to play, the retail on them is somewhere in the ballpark of 3400 bucks. Comparatively, there are a lot of other coilovers out there for those who dont do a lot of track time for a lot less money, not sacrificing much quality, I just happen to get lucky and get a good deal.

As far as the ground controls, don't buy them, for the money you spent, you could just light it on fire to keep your self warm, jk. Seriously, you're paying for a threaded metal tube and a spring. Realistically speaking, if you're looking for adjustability, and real handling, then you're far better off with a real coilover setup where the body of the strut is threaded and has several other adjustments.

Depending on how you drive and how much you track your car, keep in mind that the easist ones to get serviced if you ever blow one or need it worked on are:

Billstein, Koni, H&R, Ohlins, Fox, Moton, and Penske

it's mainly due to the fact that there are authorized service centers all over the country. Try and get a set of Tiens re-valved in this country, and you may find yourself sorry you got them. That goes for pretty much any foreign made coilover that's not widely used in track racing stateside. I'm sure that there are at least one or two service centers, but I would imagine are backed up till like Xmas time. With a real set of coilovers they should be rebuilt every couple years or so to maintain their performance any way, though most people don't.

To make a long story short, buy a real set of coilovers, it will cost you a good deal more, but is worth the money, especially if you ever decide to track your car.

Later,
Aj

[Trey]

I agree with some of what AJ said. THat said Zeal and TEIN both have stateside companies now that can revalve your suspension easily

http://www.tein.com and http://www.endlessusa.com

I woudl say Tein is a strong US presence but doesn't have the product Zeal/Endless does.

[Aj]

Agreed...Tien seems to be the front runner for toys and goodies, but their product just doesn't seem to stack up to a lot of its competitors. Much like many other japanese companies, it seems the name is better performing that the product.

JMO...

Later,
Aj

[RedKroovy]

Thanks for the input guys. Now I got to save up 1800 for the set of Zeal B6'S

[Trey]

check with Leo at http://www.jdmspecperf.com I thin you can get them for a little less than that.

Trey

[H.I.D's]

Well.. With anyone saying the Tein's are crap and they only hold a name, is not true. For someone that does mostly track events I could barley tell the difference between the top japanese coilovers out there. The tein street packaged coilover are sh*t face it. But if you look at how much they offer for there race setup coilovers, Tein puts out what you pay for. As far as Zeal being such a great company, I still think the quality of Tein is much greater in their R&D with coilovers. And has a hole lot more out there to offer. Besides the fact that Tein offers a lot to the U.S, doesn't mean they aren't competitive in Japan. For a street-based car that isn't a racecar which is mostly driven on the street, you'll barley notice any different handling among the Tein's and Zeal kit. And for a side note, it all depends on how the coilover is setup.
-Jon

[Type R 98]

i was personnally thinking billstein for street and track use in 2 years...

[JDMkalibeR]

What do you guys think about the Mugen coilover systems?

[Aj]

Nice setup, but for the money there are at least a dozen others I'd get first, unless you're getting a really killer deal.

I think I actually saw a used set on http://www.aj-racing.com under their used section. pretty trick stuff....

Later,
Aj

[JDMkalibeR]

have you guys seen the new RS*R coilovers... those are pretty sick.... pretty innovative. They were on display at the RS*R drift festival for those of you that went.

[Aj]

Got any pics?????

[descartesfool]

If you are interested in coil-overs with separately adjustable bump and rebound, there are two sets which are available below $2000 for the set. One is the Tein RS, and the other the Advance Design coil-over. I spoke to Greg at Tein USA and he said the Tein RS could be revalved/rebuilt in US for $160 ea., as long as they weren't struts as in MacPherson struts. The RS's have an external reservoir attached to the main body, with the adjustment for bump. The rebound adjuster is on the top of the main shock as it is for their models RA and RE. The external reservoir is similar to that of many more expensive dampers such as those by Moton and Leda. I also discussed with Greg the Tein N1, and found out that they were selling some for race cars, but these are about twice as stiff as the RS models. I found the Tein RS's priced at $1998 for the set at http://www.phase2motortrend.com.

I spoke to Jay Morris of Ground Control who builds the Advance design coil-overs. These can also be custom valved/rebuilt for only $50 ea. at their shop. They will build their threaded body coil-overs for any spring rate you want. There are two wheels at the top for bump and rebound adjustments. They supply Eibach springs at $55 ea. and also top spring mounts for $75 a pair I think. Coil-overs are $399 ea., making a complete set cost $1966, about the same as the RS's. I know of two yellow track only ITR's which are very fast at Mosport using the Tein RS, and two guys using the Advance Design models in some Toyota Supras driven on street and track, and they say they are fantastic. One of them finds that the Advance Design coil-overs make more noise than he would like, but he has decided to live with it since he likes the coil-overs so much.

[97 TYPE-R 312]

My vote is on the TEIN's. Tim, let me know if you're looking to do some. I will be doing a set of RE's this summer, along with some other local R's doing, RA's to FLEX units.

-Victor

[descartesfool]

After speaking with both Greg at Teinusa and Jay Morris at Ground Control, I decided that the person who knows the most about shocks should get my money, so I ordered a set of Jay's Advance Design aluminum coil-overs, $399 ea. plus $55 ea. for springs. Jay said I did not need new upper spring mounts since the ITR stock one's are excellent. I compared the dyno curves of the Tein RS ( these have the external attached reservoir with adjustable bump) with a dyno curve of a set of Advance Design coil-overs, and found both to be quite similar in terms of actual rate and range of adjustability. It was hard however to compare the slow speed bump and rebound due to lack of detail in the Tein dyno curves. Slow speed bump and rebound are what affects the car when you turn into or out of a corner, or when you brake or accelerate. High speed damping is related to shock's response to sharp bumps. The Advance Design coil-overs have good adjustability in the low speed bump part by choice, in order to best adjust the car for handling. This is why I wanted separate adjusters for bump and rebound.

Another feature which helped me choose the Advance Design over the Tein's is the fact that I get the springs I want and valving to match for the original price. In my case, Jay recommended 450 lb springs front and 550 lb springs rear, and by adding a pair of 650 lb springs for an extra $110, I can run 550 front and 650 rear. If I had chosen Tein's, you first pay for the stock set (which comes with higher rate front than rear springs which I did not want), and then you pay to revalve the shocks, which for the spring rates I wanted, would have required an extra $160 ea. or $640 extra, plus any springs. I had also checked out the Tein N1's which I assume are similar to the Mugen N1's, but the springs and damping are twice as hard as the Tein RS, and so not suitable for a car being driven to the track. If after learning how to drive the car I decided I want to use even higher springs (going towards the 800 lb front, 1200 lb rear used by Realtime Racing's ITRs), then Advance Design can rebuild the coil-overs for only $50 ea. A good deal I think.

With regards to shock info, Jay said the best book he had found describing shocks was the one by Paul Haney called Inside Racing Technology (out of print but look on Amazon.com for used copy). Paul Haney on his web site http://www.insideracingtechnology.com also recommended in his book reviews section the Ohlins TT44 damper manual. He says "the most practical information yet presented about racing shock absorbers". Paul Haney also has a new book, "THE RACING & HIGH-PERFORMANCE TIRE", which I just ordered. Ohlins is a very high performance shock manufacturer (Jay told me he thinks they have 40 engineers working on their products), and the TT44 is a shock used by CART teams, but if you are technically minded, it is worth a look. Call Ohlinsusa, $26 for the manual on CD. It is amazing how complicated shocks can be. Some people spend so much time worrying about headers, which are really very simple in comparison, and cannot be adjusted to your car. A friend of mine reduced his lap time by 4.5 seconds at Mosport by installing a set of Tein RE's on his ITR, and he only improved 1.5 seconds with a ton of engine compartment mods (including headers), which also gave him overheating and other problems. Number of problems with coil-overs was zero.

Aj was lucky to get some of the Ohlins products, but I could not afford them. Motons would have been nice too!

[George Knighton]

I am running Zeal Function B6's. Just Sold my TEIN HA's to make the change.

Both were good, the Zeals are that much better.

What spring rates are you running, if you don't mind?

[George Knighton]

The RS's have an external reservoir attached to the main body, with the adjustment for bump. The rebound adjuster is on the top of the main shock as it is for their models RA and RE. The external reservoir is similar to that of many more expensive dampers such as those by Moton and Leda.

I'm not sure if this is an indictment or a sign of their excellence ( ), but using shocks like this will bump you up a class in Honda Challenge.

You'd be running against NSX's and killer hybrids.

[George Knighton]

After speaking with both Greg at Teinusa and Jay Morris at Ground Control, I decided that the person who knows the most about shocks should get my money, so I ordered a set of Jay's Advance Design aluminum coil-overs, $399 ea. plus $55 ea. for springs....

Another feature which helped me choose the Advance Design over the Tein's is the fact that I get the springs I want and valving to match for the original price. In my case, Jay recommended 450 lb springs front and 550 lb springs rear, and by adding a pair of 650 lb springs for an extra $110, I can run 550 front and 650 rear.

Thanks for doing all the research.

I hope you won't be insulted if I run out and copy you.

[Aj]

As descartesfool said, I run the Ohlins coilovers, and wouldn't trade them for the world, they perform well on and off the track. That being said, I recently bought a new set of Eibach srpings for them. I had originally been using the set of springs that they had came with, and was very happy with the way they drove on the street, but was disapointed with them on the track...Any ways, need less to say, I sent them out, thinking they needed to be rebuilt, as I did buy them used, and it seemed they weren't performing as I had expected. I sent them of to Rob at AMF motorsports, who, if you want to talk about knowing a lot about racing suspension, I think he told me more than I ever really wanted to know.

Any way, after having the struts dynoed, I was happy to find out, that it wasn't the struts at all, in fact it was the springs, that over time had lost spring rate, and were now un-even. I talked to him for a good deal of time regarding different possible setups that I could run. After a long discussion about sway bars and rear springs, I ended up buying a set of 700lb rear springs, and a set of 550lb front springs for the street. I was actually considering a Mugen 26mm rear sway bar, mainly due to the fact that out of all the race teams that I've seen run, all run either that, or someting custom made that was a bit larger, for example, real time runs an 1.5 inch hollow sway bar, that they actually had to cut parts of the tire well to run. Any way, to make a long story short, he explained that the rear sway bar was basically a large elongated srping that hepled the rear springs maintain proper allignment as well as allow the car to use both rear springs while the car would tend to load up to one side. In otherwords, it tries to distribute some of the shock to the other side as well. Thus keeping the car a little more level, hence why it's called a sway bar. Any ways, he made a good point, he asked me where I drove the car most, the street or the track, in this case obviously, I said the street, and he suggested rather than running very high spring rates and a very thick sway bar all the time, that I should just have two sets of springs, one for the track and one for the street, he said this would accomplish two things, first, give me a drivable car for the street. In addition, when I was at the track and using the stiffer spring rates, if it started to rain, I could switch back to the spring rates that I was using for the street, this way the car didn't rotate as much on turn in, therefor giving me better control in the rain, especially since once it starts raining, I go from Toyo RA1 that are shaved to falken Azenis, which for all intensive purposes are street tires. He said that continuing to run a very stiff suspension setup in the rain would actually take away from my times, as I would have to slow down enough to avoid spinning out. I guess sometimes a little give in suspension can be a good thing. In defense of the Tiens with a higher spring rate in the front, they make a great setup for the rain, becuase you want as much distributed weight toward the front as you can, so this way,it tends to be more point and shoot in the rain, rather than having to worry about the back coming out on you too much.

On the same hand, he also explained that if you corner weight your car at an event, more than likely you can accomplish shifting the weight in your car no matter what spring rates that you use. It just so happens, with the group of guys I go out with, we all pitched in for a set of longacre scales. I acutally looked into getting an SPA dyno, but then found out how much they cost....hahahaahah.....starting at $9995, I thought there was an extra number there so I called, well, we never got the dyno....ahhahahha.

One thing after all this that I figured out on my own. I drive a street car 98% of the time, and although I would love my car to perform as well on the track as it does the street. I can't push my car that hard on the street. When I was a tad younger I saw off ramps as opportunities, and sharp turns as lots of fun. now after spending a couple years on the track, and at least one full set of rims and control arms on the street. All I see on the street any more when I see turns are curbs and trees....Not to say that I dont still drive hard on the street, but not quite the maniac I used to be. Any way, as I was saying, moral of the story, make your street car a street car, and understand that the setup that you run will not work for the track, and vice versa, unless you are willing to make some very serious sacrifices on either comfort or handling...

On a side note, Rob over at AMF motorsports, does all the work for the team that I used to travel with, he does excellent work and realy knows his stuff. If anyone ever needs anything rebuilt or modified, they stock replacement parts for everything from Ohlins to Fox, and use all SPA dynos and goodies.

Point of this really long story, though everyone wants their street car to be a track car, and vice versa, you really are better off keeping your options open, and especially with how easy it is to change springs, you should seriously consider having another set...

Just my opinion....

Later,
Aj

[descartesfool]

George Knighton wrote:

Thanks for doing all the research.

I hope you won't be insulted if I run out and copy you.

George, please feel free to copy, and let's hope I came to the right conclusion (its not like Tein RS coilovers wouldn't be great also). You will however find Jay is much easier to talk to after you have said you are buying the coil-overs. He also mentioned a really trick adjustable rear sway bar they are having custom made, which attaches to the shock bodies I believe, and cheaper than Mugen rear bar, so I ordered one.

Now with regards to those NSX's, that is what I used to run for the last 6 years, but I have decided to let it live a more elegant life as a boulevard cruiser for now. And last year I was at Lime Rock with my NSX for a lapping event, and some guy in a white Type R in the advanced run group passed every NSX (and a few were highly modified) and just about every thing else in the group except two very trick 911's. When I asked him his secret, he said he just didn't really brake in the turn before the main straight. More throttle and less brake! Oh yes and over a thousand laps at Lime Rock he figured. So I decided to give the ITR a go and to have fun tweeking it a little.

[H.I.D's]

There's going to be an open track day at sebring-full course on may 10th, you should come if you have your scca license or certification. I don't know who's running the track, but i got invited from these guys testing for le mans in lamborginis. If your cars done let me know.
-Jon

[Aj]

He also mentioned a really trick adjustable rear sway bar they are having custom made, which attaches to the shock bodies I believe, and cheaper than Mugen rear bar, so I ordered one.

Whats the deal on the sway bar, will it only work with their rear dampners or is it universal?? Also if you don't mind me asking, how much wa$ it???

There's going to be an open track day at sebring-full course on may 10th, you should come if you have your scca license or certification. I don't know who's running the track, but i got invited from these guys testing for le mans in lamborginis. If your cars done let me know.
-Jon

Thanks for calling me...gees, forget the locals why don't you!!!! Last time I ever help you disassemble your front end.....jk

Later,
Aj