Suspension???
Suspension???
hey everyone.
i think its time for me to change from the stock suspension to a better one. i plan to auto x and road course my car and ppl say don't cheap out on suspension and i agree. does anyone have any suggestions? i was thinking konis or teins coilovers? thnx
i think its time for me to change from the stock suspension to a better one. i plan to auto x and road course my car and ppl say don't cheap out on suspension and i agree. does anyone have any suggestions? i was thinking konis or teins coilovers? thnx
Re: Suspension???
Do not change your suspension until you can outdrive it.ITR97 wrote:hey everyone.
i think its time for me to change from the stock suspension to a better one. i plan to auto x and road course my car and ppl say don't cheap out on suspension and i agree. does anyone have any suggestions? i was thinking konis or teins coilovers? thnx
Do not make the even bigger mistake of changing parts on your car in preparation of what you think you will "need" for something you do not yet know how to do.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1023
- Joined: September 11th, 2002, 1:42 pm
- Location: At Helltrack doing backflips
- Contact:
Re: Suspension???
Need more info on what exactly you want to do. If you are a serious autocrosser than it depends on what class you want to be in, otherwise it depends on how streetable you want itITR97 wrote:hey everyone.
i think its time for me to change from the stock suspension to a better one. i plan to auto x and road course my car and ppl say don't cheap out on suspension and i agree. does anyone have any suggestions? i was thinking konis or teins coilovers? thnx
-Dave
Some DC2s and a pimp Grand Marquis
Some DC2s and a pimp Grand Marquis
well i dont' think i am really serious in auto x just want to have fun at the same time get the best from my suspension. i was just thinking somehting that would make my car handle way better on turns and higher speeds, and is adjustable. i dont want a rough ride on the streets cuz the roads are never smooth over here
The stock suspension fits the bill for all of your requirements.ITR97 wrote:well i dont' think i am really serious in auto x just want to have fun at the same time get the best from my suspension. i was just thinking somehting that would make my car handle way better on turns and higher speeds, and is adjustable. i dont want a rough ride on the streets cuz the roads are never smooth over here
Re: Suspension???
Just a quick note regarding suspensions ad the comparison of Tein and Koni.
Last year I ran head to head with a stock ITR in auto-x and I had a 1-2 sec advantage over him over 7 events.
This year I put on my Koni 2way adjustable revalved shocks and stayed in D/S and he went with the Tein coilover kit ( which one I'm not sure but he paid as much as I did for my Konis), which put him into DSP.
Now I run Hoosiers and he runs Yoko 32's which explains the time difference but this year we have a 4-5 sec difference. I absolutely love these Konis and he hates the Tein experience.
BTW, the Konis at their lowest settings are slightly more harsh than OE and certainly streetable.
Also, what's the deal with Tein setup of hard front springs and soft rear...???? is this the Japanese way?
BBQman
Last year I ran head to head with a stock ITR in auto-x and I had a 1-2 sec advantage over him over 7 events.
This year I put on my Koni 2way adjustable revalved shocks and stayed in D/S and he went with the Tein coilover kit ( which one I'm not sure but he paid as much as I did for my Konis), which put him into DSP.
Now I run Hoosiers and he runs Yoko 32's which explains the time difference but this year we have a 4-5 sec difference. I absolutely love these Konis and he hates the Tein experience.
BTW, the Konis at their lowest settings are slightly more harsh than OE and certainly streetable.
Also, what's the deal with Tein setup of hard front springs and soft rear...???? is this the Japanese way?
BBQman
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1023
- Joined: September 11th, 2002, 1:42 pm
- Location: At Helltrack doing backflips
- Contact:
Re: Suspension???
"JDM preferred setups" are heavy front (higher rates up front) with smaller tires in the rear at times and unique camber settings. Us lazy americans just do heavy rear. pretty much the same effect with a lot less hassle and setup.bbqman wrote:BTW, the Konis at their lowest settings are slightly more harsh than OE and certainly streetable.
Also, what's the deal with Tein setup of hard front springs and soft rear...???? is this the Japanese way?
BBQman
Be careful with the koni's if you want to run much higher (>500#) rates in the future, they'll need to be revalved to handle such rates correctly.
-Dave
Some DC2s and a pimp Grand Marquis
Some DC2s and a pimp Grand Marquis
Re: Suspension???
Speaking as someone with stock suspension, don't switch your suspension 'in preparation' for autocrossing and track days.
I have stock suspension and it is VERY capable.
Try it, you might find that you still have alot to learn from the stock setup. There is no sense in wasting money until you can outdrive your suspension (lots of body roll would indicate this) and know what you want to buy.
I have stock suspension and it is VERY capable.
Try it, you might find that you still have alot to learn from the stock setup. There is no sense in wasting money until you can outdrive your suspension (lots of body roll would indicate this) and know what you want to buy.
-
- ITRCA Member
- Posts: 418
- Joined: September 12th, 2002, 8:12 am
- Location: Culpeper Virginia (Besieged)
- Contact:
I'm gathering from your comments that you want the best of both worlds.ITR97 wrote: i was just thinking somehting that would make my car handle way better on turns and higher speeds, and is adjustable. i dont want a rough ride on the streets cuz the roads are never smooth over here
Know what?
You already have it in the ITR OEM suspension!
There's a widely known NASA-Virginia instructor named Willard Harris. His suspension is still completely stock, and he's lapping many cars on expensive custom suspensions.
If you are really not going to be tracking your car all that much, you could do something relatively inexpensive, like switching to Spoon Progressive springs. This will give you a firmer feel on the street, and you will find yourself driving a little more enthusiastically than you normally would.
However, if you are tracking your car a lot, you will outgrow springs like this because these normal "safe" setups will have you plowing hopelessly on sharp corners if you don't take your car to the next level w/different shocks, swaybars and camber settings.
On the other hand, one infers from your statements that you are not experienced enough for us to conscience recommending a classic USDM type racing suspension. Going heavy in the rear can get you in a world of trouble in an emergency if you don't know what you're doing, and you could easily also end up with a car that makes you uneasy when driven enthusiastically.
For example, the Honda Challenge champions all seem to be unhappy unless their cars are hanging the tails out on every turn. I'd hesitate to recommend those kinds of ratios for you on the street. It's fast...but it's dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
The ITR Expo at Beaverun was the first time I had tracked my ITR with a heavy-rear suspension...and I was definitely uncomfortable. The kids loved it...but I ended up being very slow and cautious because the car seemed to be hunting for direction on the straights, and unpredictable (but quick) in the corners.
I finally got used to it and fiddled w/the alignments a bit, and was approved for Summit Point's Seat Time programme this past Friday (meaning I can just show up and drive without supervision). But in the beginning, that heavy rear was very disconcerting (and I am not exactly a completely inexperienced driver).
So...I mirror the advice of my friends above.
Get into driving your ITR w/the stock suspension first, and learn all about the dynamics of the ITR that way, before you waste a lot of money and give yourself a lot of headaches fooling w/spring rates and shocks.
-
- ITRCA Member
- Posts: 153
- Joined: November 7th, 2002, 6:24 pm
- Location: Ellicott City, Maryland
Re: Suspension???
Nice job on achieving Seat Time status George. I'd also agree with all these guys, though I'm far less experienced than any of them. I'm just starting to track and autox my R, and the stock suspension is already very capable. The tail will come around as it is if provoked, though definitely not as much and not as easily as a more modified car. Same as the others: get used to driving it stock, you'll become a better driver instead of just a guy with a more modified car.
A bunch of days left 'till Expo '05!
Re: Suspension???
oh alrite thnx guys.
hum well the guy i brought my car off he put Yokos A032R does that put in a modified class? plus i have no rear seats and a rear upper strut?
hum well the guy i brought my car off he put Yokos A032R does that put in a modified class? plus i have no rear seats and a rear upper strut?
-
- ITRCA Member
- Posts: 153
- Joined: November 7th, 2002, 6:24 pm
- Location: Ellicott City, Maryland
Re: Suspension???
I believe R-compound tires are allowed in stock classes, which has been a point of conflict, seeing as how it detracts from the whole "keep it ultra-cheap" idea of a stock class, but whatever the case, I think you're ok on that. If the rear strut bar winds up bumping you up a class, I'd advise taking it out. It certainly won't make enough difference to make you competitive for a class like SM, considering the different mods allowed there. And as far as back seat goes, is this a problem at all? I have no idea, someone who knows better step in and help me out. I didn't think that mattered at all. Will you be coming to the autox this Sunday at Fedex field?
A bunch of days left 'till Expo '05!
Re: Suspension???
Racing (in any class and in any form) is not cheap.sscguy wrote:I believe R-compound tires are allowed in stock classes, which has been a point of conflict, seeing as how it detracts from the whole "keep it ultra-cheap" idea of a stock class, but whatever the case, I think you're ok on that.
Put the back seats back in and remove the rear strut tower bar, so you can run in stock class.sscguy wrote:If the rear strut bar winds up bumping you up a class, I'd advise taking it out. It certainly won't make enough difference to make you competitive for a class like SM, considering the different mods allowed there. And as far as back seat goes, is this a problem at all? I have no idea, someone who knows better step in and help me out. I didn't think that mattered at all. Will you be coming to the autox this Sunday at Fedex field?
Those "mods" do not yield enough "gains" to warrant the jump to a much faster class.
I raced in stock class with an ITR for 2.5 years and it was great fun. I would still be racing in stock class if it were not for my desire to track the car in Solo I.
-
- ITRCA Member
- Posts: 153
- Joined: November 7th, 2002, 6:24 pm
- Location: Ellicott City, Maryland
Re: Suspension???
Right, no racing is "cheap", as you're always buying something for your busted up car, or tires, or a new transmission (like me). I thought though that R-compound tires, being close to $200 a piece were against the idea of TRYING to keep it as cheap as possible. $800 for a set of Hoosiers vs. like $200 for a set of Falkens is a big difference.
A bunch of days left 'till Expo '05!
Re: Suspension???
In stock class, one can use $4000 shocks and $800 tires.sscguy wrote:Right, no racing is "cheap", as you're always buying something for your busted up car, or tires, or a new transmission (like me). I thought though that R-compound tires, being close to $200 a piece were against the idea of TRYING to keep it as cheap as possible. $800 for a set of Hoosiers vs. like $200 for a set of Falkens is a big difference.
Not to mention a custom ($$$) bolt-in rollbar/cage.
-
- ITRCA Member
- Posts: 153
- Joined: November 7th, 2002, 6:24 pm
- Location: Ellicott City, Maryland
Re: Suspension???
I was completely unaware such modifications are allowed. I was under the impression that stock meant if it's offered by the original company specifically for that car, then it's allowed, and if it isn't, then it's not allowed. Guess I was wrong...
A bunch of days left 'till Expo '05!
Re: Suspension???
This should help you out:sscguy wrote:I was completely unaware such modifications are allowed. I was under the impression that stock meant if it's offered by the original company specifically for that car, then it's allowed, and if it isn't, then it's not allowed. Guess I was wrong...
http://moutons.org/sccasolo/
-
- suite 200
Re: Suspension???
Don't forget you can do cat back exhausts.sscguy wrote:I was completely unaware such modifications are allowed. I was under the impression that stock meant if it's offered by the original company specifically for that car, then it's allowed, and if it isn't, then it's not allowed. Guess I was wrong...