ITRCA

itrsteez wrote: PS, Chicago is not on the east coast.

Extremely valid point.

Why not have a Trial ITREXPO West event then to make the wrong coast happy? I think realistically there will be about 5-10 people who would make the drive from the east to the west anyway.

ITREXPO EAST event would still draw 100+ peeps.

Then, if the ITR EXPO WEST event busts out sweet numbers it can be taken into consideration to combine the two ITREXPO EAST & WEST Events into one event the following year.

itrsteez wrote:***Good idea fairy alert***

Have it at MAM.
20 hours from NYC
25 hours from LA

so it's safe to say that it is a safe "half way" point. Have it in the middle for survey purposes. When comes to event time you'll be able to see if west coast participation is what you thought it would be.

I don't mind MAM, but the hotel is WAY too far away (and banquet halls, etc).

Knowingly putting 100+ drunk people on the road for a 30 or so minute drive is not something we want to do again.

IntegraTionR wrote: Then you wonder why: "I hate that there is something between them, can't we all just get along"?
And why there isn't much of a following from the West.
Saying that "the preeminent group morale will drop there after once Expo goes West" is non-sense as you do not speak for everyone and is degrading the West.
Ask yourself how the West felt about the fact that it stayed in the east for the past 9 years!!!
Reading through all these post, it's mainly the east who are doubting the West attendance & driver numbers. Which I understand from the previous failed attempt. But that was only 1 attempt from my knowledge.
It's understood that people in general are afraid to come out of their comfort zone. So they tend to stick with what they know works!
At the same time, it's funny how the east is so struck about Expo going West and loosing participants while they all say:

It was in the middle of the country in 2005, about as smack dab in the middle as you can get (MAM). West Coast was weak then too.

Then we can show results from 2004, where it was in AZ (sure, not a pacific coast state but pretty damn close) and SoCal complained that it was still too far away. WC registration represented a huge MINORITY of Expo 4 registration before we had to move it from AZ (because the track in AZ was shutdown by neighbors complaining about noise).

There is a lot of evidence to support that a EC/MW Expo works, and a good bit to support that a WC one has a good chance of failure.

I've been pushing for a WC Expo for years so I could go out west on vacation for once However, I directly remember how hard it was to get any support in the past, when the event was being planned out west. (since I was involved and running statistics on the numbers, I remember just how badly the WC representation was).

IntegraTionR wrote: As far as I know, Expo started in the West! (Expo 1: Buttonwillow, California)
And if you're on board no matter where Expo goes, then y'all should be happy that it's going back where it all started! Please don't try to pull such comments like these again and wonder why there is such animosity.

Yes, it did. And just how many cars were there again? Compare that to the events since... I won't ever say Expo 1 was a failure, but I also will never say it was a stunning success. There are a few key players out there to thank for Expo 1's existence, without them, it would have completely failed.

coolhandluke wrote:Expo 1 was on the West Coast, and Expo 4 was slated to be on the West Coast, but folded, due to lack of attendance.

Technically it was not moved back east due to attendance. There's actually a chance we could have pulled in enough people to make it work. Just 80%+ were east coast and mid-west people. There were more people willing to drive from Florida and NC to AZ than from CA, OR, NV and WA combined.

In the end it moved initially because the track got closed down, although it was coming down to the wire anyways. Then we went for Summit, who promised a completed track but failed to deliver, then we fell back to BeaveRun who welcomed us back and gave us a good date to have as well.

IntegraTionR wrote:I can assume that Expo's success through out the years in the east is due to the connections Expo have made and have brought in.

What I understand from this attempt(gut feeling) is that the Expo committee has no strong link to a solid West/ Mid-West ITR based community and are afraid of loosing their distinguished followers (east).
So even I will say that I won't be surprised of another failed attempt to have Expo on the West!!!
It's just a matter of "How bad does the committee want this to happen"?

I'd like to ask this upon our Expo committee: How was Expo 2 carried out? I counted 40 ITR's in the lineup picture @ Gingerman.
The list that Yellowkahuna has summed up are mostly California presumed attendees alone! AZ and NV ITR's hasn't even been all accounted for yet!
What are the prospective numbers you would like to see?

Numbers don't mean crap. I'll tell you what, get them all to send in a $150 deposit and we'll talk.

We had a TON of "prospective numbers" (of west coasters) for Expo 4, less than 10 registered.

The committee has members located in Omaha (and surrounding area), Wisconsin, Chicago, and Tampa FL.

It's stayed out here because we know we can get the numbers we need to pay for the track here.

As for Expo 2, we didn't plan it. CGI motorsports ran the event. It's where we learned that we had to do it ourselves or everything would be f'd up. Don't even get me started on E2

CivicBeater wrote:

itrsteez wrote: PS, Chicago is not on the east coast.

Extremely valid point.

Why not have a Trial ITREXPO West event then to make the wrong coast happy? I think realistically there will be about 5-10 people who would make the drive from the east to the west anyway.

ITREXPO EAST event would still draw 100+ peeps.

Then, if the ITR EXPO WEST event busts out sweet numbers it can be taken into consideration to combine the two ITREXPO EAST & WEST Events into one event the following year.

Who's going to front the cash for Expo West? We break even on the event, so losing money = a sure bet none of us involved will ever touch Expo again, east coast or west coast.

Dave-ROR wrote:

CivicBeater wrote:

itrsteez wrote: PS, Chicago is not on the east coast.

Extremely valid point.

Why not have a Trial ITREXPO West event then to make the wrong coast happy? I think realistically there will be about 5-10 people who would make the drive from the east to the west anyway.

ITREXPO EAST event would still draw 100+ peeps.

Then, if the ITR EXPO WEST event busts out sweet numbers it can be taken into consideration to combine the two ITREXPO EAST & WEST Events into one event the following year.

Who's going to front the cash for Expo West? We break even on the event, so losing money = a sure bet none of us involved will ever touch Expo again, east coast or west coast.

Well there you go, then. Not to be too blunt or personal, however: West coast - put up or shut up. No but seriously - Someone is going to have to step up huge for it to happen or to be taken into consideration. At this point, I can't see why it's even being considered without a tremendous amount of willingness from some sort of subsidary.

Dave-ROR wrote:Numbers don't mean crap. I'll tell you what, get them all to send in a $150 deposit and we'll talk.

I would make it non-refundable or you might have a run on the bank

I guess the thing that always gets me out of all of the forum traffic is that you rarely see any events organized outside of a eibach or laguna beach meet. If I saw a coverage thread with even half of that list at a normal hpde I would probably shit my pants.

Dave-ROR wrote:

itrsteez wrote:***Good idea fairy alert***

Have it at MAM.
20 hours from NYC
25 hours from LA

so it's safe to say that it is a safe "half way" point. Have it in the middle for survey purposes. When comes to event time you'll be able to see if west coast participation is what you thought it would be.

I don't mind MAM, but the hotel is WAY too far away (and banquet halls, etc).

Knowingly putting 100+ drunk people on the road for a 30 or so minute drive is not something we want to do again.

are you referring to the few campers? That hotel/banquet situation was awesome! I guess if that many people were drinking/staying at the track and having to drive between them, then yeah thats no good. I'd gladly go to MAM again

Mid-Ohio....

Erik95LS wrote: Mid-Ohio....

Quit suggesting mid ohio, that's unfair to the people that live in the other 49 states

Just out of curiosity, could the same HPD support be extended to other tracks besides willow springs?

Erik95LS wrote:Mid-Ohio....

zygspeed wrote:

Erik95LS wrote:Mid-Ohio....

'Sup Ed?
Me, I'd like to do full course at Miller.
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/up ... Course.jpg

98 CW ITR 322 wrote:

zygspeed wrote:

Erik95LS wrote:Mid-Ohio....

'Sup Ed?
Me, I'd like to do full course at Miller.
http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/up ... Course.jpg

With all of y'all comments said: Then why attempt a West coast Expo if you already know the outcome?
The committee should stick to the close tight dependable group they have on the east and mid-west and keep trotting along!

IntegraTionR wrote:With all of y'all comments said: Then why attempt a West coast Expo if you already know the outcome?
The committee should stick to the close tight dependable group they have on the east and mid-west and keep trotting along!

Because committee members have to survey, they have a tough task either way as they'll never find anything to make everybody happy. None the less, they still have to ensure a successful event or the whole ship sinks.

It surprises me that the ITR committee doesn't even seem to try to reach out to the members in the West.
The committee should try to reach out to the members of the West first and try to bring the ITR family together @ E11.
Everyone seems to be so stuck up in the issue about who tracks the most to be qualified as ITR members for Expo...
Everyone here has their own groups. ITR owners will be with other non ITR members. Just look at Eibach. There's no other Honda/Acura gathering like this in the east.
Granted that most are show cars, but the community is there!

I know YellowKahuna tries very hard and his best to bring the family together but you can see how many of us can keep our distances due to fear.
High rates of stolen ITR's in California in the past will keep any owner from coming out of their comfort zone!

As you can tell, there aren't that many West coast members who are on ITRCA. Heck, most of them have never even heard of ITRCA.
Owners come and go. ITR's on the West get's stolen all the time. ITR shells gets picked up all the time and rebuilt.
The last meet we've had at Kiwi's shop, I've seen at least 3 new faces. And the one before that, I've seen at least 4-5 new faces.
It just goes to show how fast ownership changes and also goes to show how many ITR owners have yet to be discovered.

So as a challenge to the ITR committee, maybe you should get to know them first before drawing a conclusion on past events.
And if your decision is already made about the West, then so be it. I'm not interested in hearing why E11 should not be in the West.
I'm more interested to hear why it should be in the West. And if that's the case, y'all should spend more time trying to recruit West ITR members in order to make this happen.

If you want to have a family get together, you'll give a sh*t about who your family members are! (Just my thoughts, sorry!)

You're perpetuating the issue more than anybody else who has posted in this thread.

IntegraTionR wrote:It surprises me that the ITR committee doesn't even seem to try to reach out to the members in the West.
The committee should try to reach out to the members of the West first and try to bring the ITR family together @ E11.
Everyone seems to be so stuck up in the issue about who tracks the most to be qualified as ITR members for Expo...
Everyone here has their own groups. ITR owners will be with other non ITR members. Just look at Eibach. There's no other Honda/Acura gathering like this in the east.
Granted that most are show cars, but the community is there!

I know YellowKahuna tries very hard and his best to bring the family together but you can see how many of us can keep our distances due to fear.
High rates of stolen ITR's in California in the past will keep any owner from coming out of their comfort zone!

As you can tell, there aren't that many West coast members who are on ITRCA. Heck, most of them have never even heard of ITRCA.
Owners come and go. ITR's on the West get's stolen all the time. ITR shells gets picked up all the time and rebuilt.
The last meet we've had at Kiwi's shop, I've seen at least 3 new faces. And the one before that, I've seen at least 4-5 new faces.
It just goes to show how fast ownership changes and also goes to show how many ITR owners have yet to be discovered.

So as a challenge to the ITR committee, maybe you should get to know them first before drawing a conclusion on past events.
And if your decision is already made about the West, then so be it. I'm not interested in hearing why E11 should not be in the West.
I'm more interested to hear why it should be in the West. And if that's the case, y'all should spend more time trying to recruit West ITR members in order to make this happen.

If you want to have a family get together, you'll give a sh*t about who your family members are! (Just my thoughts, sorry!)

Before typing out another dissertation ask yourself why will you not travel for expo? You keep saying east east east as if everybody here lives in the same neighborhood and only has a 20 minute drive to expo. Why does expo deserve to come to your back door?

for the record, every year we try and try to get people from out there to come out. reaching out through various resources and contacts.

IntegraTionR wrote: Everyone seems to be so stuck up in the issue about who tracks the most to be qualified as ITR members for Expo...

I've only seen that attitude come from you.

IntegraTionR wrote: I know YellowKahuna tries very hard and his best to bring the family together but you can see how many of us can keep our distances due to fear.
High rates of stolen ITR's in California in the past will keep any owner from coming out of their comfort zone!

all the more reason to come to where theft is less and everyone can relax a bit with their car. Talk to anyone out there who has been to E2-10 (Yoshi, Mikehonda, Kepnai, ITRBroham, Koala Yummies, etc). They'll gladly tell you that the attitudes you see in us are way off base

IntegraTionR wrote: And if your decision is already made about the West, then so be it. I'm not interested in hearing why E11 should not be in the West.
I'm more interested to hear why it should be in the West. And if that's the case, y'all should spend more time trying to recruit West ITR members in order to make this happen.

it's a discussion by the entire group (both coasts and all those in between included) about why it should and shouldn't be there or here and why. How is that not productive? Just because someone says something contrary to what you think/believe/want does not make it negative or the end of a discussion.

And, no, me answering individual points like this is in no way me attacking your belief system or the idea of a California Expo locale.

Okay, let’s remember we are all part of the same community and turn the tone to a more collaborative tone I think all parties posting have some good points, and there have also been some comments that are not constructive. Please refrain from the non-constructive commentary.

I think it is important for the Expo Committee to sincerely explore the possibilities that have been presented and not dismiss them purely on speculation/perception/etc., but rather on hard facts. Right now, we are working on gathering the facts and providing details of an event that could be a reality and not just a hypothetical.

I think the Expo in its purest form was intended to move around the country to different tracks with an emphasis on touching as many people as possible over the course of its existence and that it is structured as an HPDE event that is inviting to both beginning and experienced drivers. Some of you might want to add or take away from that, but in my mind that has always been the core of our event. Historically, it has been tough to get enough support from the west coast to have an event out there, but I don’t' want to assume that is still the case. With the potential of HPD's involvement along with a Honda Challenge race incorporated into our event, the dynamics may change enough to support a successful event.

I don't think it is anyone's fault for not being in touch with one group vs. another. I think the important thing is that we have identified the gap, and can now do something about it to bring the different communities together that haven't been in touch with one another.

If we do our due diligence and find that the support isn't there then that's okay, but I don't want to make that assumption based on speculation and perception. We know that we can't make everyone happy no matter where we have the event, and there will always be those that the distance will be an issue.

Remember, we are all enthusiasts and are part of the same community

itrsteez wrote:

IntegraTionR wrote:It surprises me that the ITR committee doesn't even seem to try to reach out to the members in the West.
The committee should try to reach out to the members of the West first and try to bring the ITR family together @ E11.
Everyone seems to be so stuck up in the issue about who tracks the most to be qualified as ITR members for Expo...
Everyone here has their own groups. ITR owners will be with other non ITR members. Just look at Eibach. There's no other Honda/Acura gathering like this in the east.
Granted that most are show cars, but the community is there!

I know YellowKahuna tries very hard and his best to bring the family together but you can see how many of us can keep our distances due to fear.
High rates of stolen ITR's in California in the past will keep any owner from coming out of their comfort zone!

As you can tell, there aren't that many West coast members who are on ITRCA. Heck, most of them have never even heard of ITRCA.
Owners come and go. ITR's on the West get's stolen all the time. ITR shells gets picked up all the time and rebuilt.
The last meet we've had at Kiwi's shop, I've seen at least 3 new faces. And the one before that, I've seen at least 4-5 new faces.
It just goes to show how fast ownership changes and also goes to show how many ITR owners have yet to be discovered.

So as a challenge to the ITR committee, maybe you should get to know them first before drawing a conclusion on past events.
And if your decision is already made about the West, then so be it. I'm not interested in hearing why E11 should not be in the West.
I'm more interested to hear why it should be in the West. And if that's the case, y'all should spend more time trying to recruit West ITR members in order to make this happen.

If you want to have a family get together, you'll give a sh*t about who your family members are! (Just my thoughts, sorry!)

Before typing out another dissertation ask yourself why will you not travel for expo? You keep saying east east east as if everybody here lives in the same neighborhood and only has a 20 minute drive to expo. Why does expo deserve to come to your back door?

Very good question. The closest Expo to me was 1,100 (E3) miles away. A few others around 1,200 (E2, E6, E9, E10). The longest about 1,450 (E5) miles away. EDIT: Forgot about VIR, so with the detour each year to Charlotte those two years were only 725 miles away (E7 and E8).

Of course, that mileage doesn't include all the side trips and such. Total mileage for E10 was around 3,500, not the 2,400 that mileage would indicate. For E5 we actually drove to Charlotte first, making that a 1,700+ mile trip one way.... probably well over 4k on that trip total. VIR trips both included side trips to hit up some mountain roads. E9 included a Cedar Point trip as well. E2 also had a Cedar Point trip. E6 had a Cedar Point trip I've *easily* traveled more than 20,000 miles for Expo trips.

I guess that's why the "It's too far" for those who have never gone, or only gone once when it was close to them, just make me laugh.

IntegrationR: Honestly I think you are hurting your case instead of helping it. If we already dismissed a West Coast expo then why does this thread even exist? Think man. It's a very good possibility but we can't just decide to go for it and "hope" it works out. And I have reached out to WC guys before but never got enough support to do it.

As Wes said, Expo was setup to do this:
WC>MW>EC>WC>MW>EC and repeat. Unfortunately after WC failed in 2004 we never found enough support to risk it again. With the potential additional support from Honda/Acura and HPD (not mentioning HC on purpose ) it becomes a possibility again.

Dave, you mentioned exactly what I have been thinking over the past page or 2...

If the Commitee was not thinking about a WC event, or had their minds made up then why does this thread exist?

Last parting thing from me...

PHIL SUCKS!!!

IntegraTionR wrote:It surprises me that the ITR committee doesn't even seem to try to reach out to the members in the West.
The committee should try to reach out to the members of the West first and try to bring the ITR family together @ E11.
Everyone seems to be so stuck up in the issue about who tracks the most to be qualified as ITR members for Expo...

I'm not one to single this out, but I've reached out to at least two west coast people for help, and they've been excellent on info. On top of that, I'm actually friends with some old ITR guys out there (Yoshi and Kelly for example) and am communication with those two in some form throughout the year. I think that qualifies as an Expo Committee member reaching out to the west.

If we weren't serious about it, this thread would not exist.

...

Honestly, I would absolutely love to do a west coast event and a mid-ohio event this year as well...best of both worlds, right?

Well, things to consider...

- it would kill us committee members to run TWO events nowhere near each other
- we'd split up the group and lose people willing to make the cross-country trip
- we'd potentially burden sponsors with TWO events to support
...etc.

I'd love to do that, please both our long-term core supporters as well as reach out to the west coast. However, that's honestly too much work for us I fear.

I hope that helps in the discussion. I'm very approachable as many have learned. However, I've been slammed with some things outside of Expo the last couple weeks.

In regards to EVERYTHING posted in the last 2 pages....

I'm on the west coast and located closer to willow springs than any ITR owner in the country. i have had multiple emails with cheezthis regarding the local area, track conditions, lodging etc. i have given him detailed milage from HPD head quarters to both Willow springs and Buttonwillow and well as gone into detail on what tracks are best suited for our caR's..
so while it might not be public knowledge the committee is getting detailed info from a local here in the west.

Jay also explained that affiliation with NASA is still unknown could be more of an exhibition/practice type event for the the HC drivers.

We can all go back and forth about how the west coast has poor attendance at expo.. (its true) but lets be honest it isn't easy for anyone to take a week off of work, drive across the country, beat the crap out of your car (and your body) for 2 days and drive home.
if E11 comes west i'm sure it will lose some east coast attendance...just the same as it has never gained it from the west.
there are 2 sides to everything.

i'm not going to say that all 41 people on the west coast list are going to actually come through, but i feel more than confident that if the event did actually come this way i personally will do everything in my power to make sure it's one for the books..