ITRCA

I've told Wes my thoughts via email, but I'm going to voice some of my concerns on a west coast expo:

We have put on a great event year after year. I think we're building a lot of momentum each year, especially at Expo 10 with Acura's arrival as a sponsor and SPEAKER (!!!!) at the banquet.

Our 'base' of regulars - drivers, instructors, even organizers - is East Coast/Mid West. And it is a large group.

How many regulars can make it to a west coast expo (25%?) and how many new people will fill the void and actually show up from the west coast? What if this is a flop? If it does not go as well as we want, will we be able to recover for Expo 12? Where are our instructors coming from and who can 'vouch' for them? In the past most of our instructors have been people we know - all very qualified, but definitely OUR type of instructor as we have been very focused new drivers.

I don't think we are BIG enough to take a huge gamble on the west coast. I would love to have one out there, who wouldn't? But I am more concerned about the future of expo, not just the NEXT expo.

I really want to build upon what we did last year and the years prior. I think sticking closer to our base and continuing to add loyal ITR Expo people is the way to go. We are still very small in the scheme of things, we are not big enough or resourceful enough to jump around all over the country like NSXPO does - nor do we all have the money! ( or we'd have an NSX - ) Maybe one day, but after such an excellent event, I do not want to see us lose our momentum. It may be a huge hit out west, who knows? That's the absolute best case scenario. We know we can top ourselves each year by sticking in the EC/MW area, but there are so many variables we cannot control by going out west right now (mostly drivers, more importantly instructors, sponsors, etc).

i REALLY want us to go to Mid-Ohio with Acura and HPD.

I just don't think we are large enough to make the leap to the west coast.

Also, and I have not been keeping up so maybe something is changed - but I share many peoples' fears about having NASA involved AT ALL in our event.

Again, I'm not trying to start a flame war or point fingers at anyone, but I think I speak for many long time members (who have and have not spoken up (sadly)) when I say that I'd prefer to build on what we've done so far before we take a giant chance with so many unknowns associated with going so far outside our home base. I want expo to continue to happen each year, and I'm concerned that if we take a giant risk and it doesn't go as well as we hope (I acknowledge it may go very well, but there are SO many unknowns, we have a hard enough time getting everything to go smoothly when the event is closer to home!!), we may be shooting ourselves in the foot.

Chris

Thanks for voicing your concerns, Chris. Many are thinking those same things, but aren't around or aren't ready to voice their opinions

but I share many peoples' fears about having NASA involved AT ALL in our event.


Yes, NASA kept me from attending ECHC season #2 in 2003 and every year since........

I always like to reference them as "money hungry clowns"

Chris N congrats and well said...... id love to attend the expo if it was in Cali since ive never been there but 40hrs and 4000km one way..... plus getting time off work now since I have already had to pick vacation for 2011 will be pretty much impossible.....i wish the west coast guys luck and hope they can pull this off but i know it will be tough for alot of us from further east or north to make the long haul.....

I just want to stress that while I spent more time on random west coast questions (instructors, students, etc)....

MY MAIN CONCERN is our involvement with NASA.

Also: Maybe a WC Expo could *possibly* be done for E12... after we see how many WC people show up to a MW Expo... etc.

This is a great idea.

Chris N wrote:I just want to stress that while I spent more time on random west coast questions (instructors, students, etc)....

MY MAIN CONCERN is our involvement with NASA.

Also: Maybe a WC Expo could *possibly* be done for E12... after we see how many WC people show up to a MW Expo... etc.

This is a great idea.

That's where my MAM suggestion stemmed from, make a fun statistics game out of it. It would stop both sides from bitching and moaning. I know ROR expressed a concern about the track location in distance from the hotel which I would say is a valid concern unless arrangements could be made.

Mid Ohio would just be flat out epic, I don't even like mentioning the name.

R-box wrote:
Also: Maybe a WC Expo could *possibly* be done for E12... after we see how many WC people show up to a MW Expo... etc.

WC attendees who show up to MW Expo:

Melanie
Phil
Ian
Bo
Nolan
The new guy from WA
Koala

/WC attendee list of MW Expo

B18CXr wrote:but I share many peoples' fears about having NASA involved AT ALL in our event.


Yes, NASA kept me from attending ECHC season #2 in 2003 and every year since........

I always like to reference them as "money hungry clowns"

<< was wondering when you'd speak up about NASA

R-box wrote:Chris, I'm really glad you, one of the committee members, wrote that post.

Even being on this side of the country, I totally agree with your view. It breaks my bank every year to make it to Expo, but I, too, would rather keep the momentum going than take a huge risk on the to-be-seen success of a West Coast Expo. I'm not using this post to knock any of the WC people, but I just agree that the way Expo is currently run; who attends; who instructs; who sponsors -- is all key to keeping it a success w/o a huge gamble.

Maybe if E11 is kept more Midwest (Mid-Ohio or Mid-America *cough cough*) than far-far East Coast, the Cali people will still commit and everyone can "meet in the middle". As someone already stated, tracks in the MW make the driving time more even for everybody. I feel this could be a way to see how much REAL interest there is from the WC people as well as have the best showing from current regulars, no?

Also: Maybe a WC Expo could *possibly* be done for E12... after we see how many WC people show up to a MW Expo... etc.

:thumbup:

As much as I'm not a fan of MAM, I'd consider it just to gauge WC interest in terms of real, hard numbers. If a good number of WC'er people show up then I can't imagine there'd be any reason not to go west for E12.

As much as I'd love Mid Ohio though, it's too far east IMO to bring any WC people who haven't come to Autobahn (at the very least), etc already so I don't think it's worthwhile to use for predicting the possibility of E12 WC success.

Personally, I've wanted a WC expo since E3 ended. I've posted multiple years about a WC expo, and never had enough support.

A lot of people are worried that one bad expo, or one far away, will kill/seriously injure expo. Maybe I'm a fool, but I don't think it'd matter if a WC experiment expo failed. Sure, you might lose some people, but IMO the bonds between the "core" group are strong enough to skip a year and still be fine.

Chris N wrote:MY MAIN CONCERN is our involvement with NASA.

:thumbup:x10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

If NASA is involved, I wish Wes the best of luck, and Expo the best of luck.

That's all I'm saying on that subject however.

i'm copying my post that i just made on NWP to here before any of the other west coasters bring there opinions here.....
for those that havent been following that site the bitching continues. i just want it to be clear that the committee has my full support and understanding wherever the event is held, and if its financially doable i'll be there regardless of location.

-Jared





OKAY.....

AS A WEST COASTER WHO WANTS TO SEE THIS HAPPEN, NOT A MEMBER OF ANY COMMITTEE.

We have to all understand that there are multiple side to this. One major thing is the financial commitment that must be made. for those of you that dont fully understand what goes into a track event here is a quick rundown using Buttonwillow raceway as an example.

Rental rate 5,200 a day x 2 days (weekend summer months)
Insurance policy. 1,100 a day
Corner workers $125 each a day. (need 8-10)
Medic $135 an hour 8-9 hours x 2 days
Tow truck $250 a day
AMB timing (transponders-decoder-computer and person to run it) roughly $1,000 a day
not to mention all of the little things that come along, marketing, promotion items etc etc.

thats roughly 15K right there!
Now with our list of 50 cars thats $300 each just to maybe break even. and lets be honest people flake! they always have and always will!

Now assuming that not everyone on the list is going to make it, how many of the east coaster will be making the drive and will that number make up the difference?

Instructors,
yes a large number of instructors will be needed. they will most likely be given a discount for there services and cannot be held to the full $300. that in turn means more drivers are needed to make up that difference.

Now lets not forget what else is needed at the track that might not be provided.
microphone
walkie talkies
fire extinguishers
cones
etc.

Marketing.
tee's
stickers
banners
etc.

And lets not forget about the Banquet hall. $$$$


I think the best thing that any of us can do is try to understand the big picture of what goes into these events and the commitment that must be made.
having a list does nothing to secure an event.

As "Chris n" wrote before it's not that they are against having an event out here. but they have to cover their asses. they are all working together to put on a successful event that will work and benefit the entire ITR community. its a giant gamble stepping into the unknown with so many factors that potentially work against the entire Expo organization you cant get upset that it might not happen.

The best thing that any of us can do is to continue the positive attitudes and help to be constructive lets all keep our personal opinions out and keep what's best for expo in mind.

Jared,

Once again, thank you for your understanding on all this stuff.

Seeing the attitude that you display just makes me want a WC expo even more. Some other attitudes, not so much

I've seen some people talk about the numbers, etc.. but that's just part of it. Sure, the numbers have to be there to make it financially work, but there's a ton more that needs to be decided.

Assuming I stay involved in the planning (depends on some of that stuff that needs to be decided) I will fight for a WC expo. I honestly do believe it can work, and I do believe it can be successful, even very successful. I also do not believe that it would kill Expo going back East or Midwest for 2012.

However, I will also say that if we do a WC expo, and then we go back to the Midwest and we get no more WC participation than we currently get, then I'd fight against ever going back out west. I'd love to have WC events in the rotation, but if WCers don't involve themselves in the events out east and in the midwest than I completely lose my desire to go back west simply out of fairness for those who do support the event, no matter the location.

Once we get more info from Wes, who's in contact with NASA, HPD, etc at the moment, then planning for one coast or the other will begin in earnest.

I agree with you Dave on several points...especially on WC hurting Expo. It may be a flat year, but I don't see East coast and Mid West people selling their caRs and moving on just because Expo is "too far" for a single year.

My primary thought/concern about Expo is still how much NASA via HC via HPD will try to run the event. We are certainly big enough that we should stand on our own. The west vs east debate is secondary to this IMO. Perhaps I'm a too optimistic, but I think the west coast could gather up enough drivers. How many advanced ones, who knows. There were 927 USDM ITRs in CA alone at last count(2006)...I'd bet a number of them track or would want to try tracking....well, those that haven't been stolen/stripped/wrecked/trashed.The sad part is I think we'd be lucky if 10-15% of the east coast/mid west guys have the time/money to drive their cars out there. It's a big feat. All this talk has me feeling much more respect for the few who have come from AZ/Ca/WA to our Exbos.

I'd love to get Expo at Mid Ohio...my new love I don't see that helping get the WC involved either, Autobahn is closer by a few hrs.

The MAM suggestion is interesting. I'm too lazy to check a map...but is it pretty dead nuts in the middle of the coasts?
Here's a wild Plan E or F....Miller Motorsports Park Even closer to the WC to give them some advantage/incentive.

Doespike wrote:The MAM suggestion is interesting. I'm too lazy to check a map...but is it pretty dead nuts in the middle of the coasts?

pretty much smack in the middle from LA and NY if I recall correctly. At bare minimum it would be a end all to attendance speculation bickering.

KOALA YUMMIES wrote:

R-box wrote:
Also: Maybe a WC Expo could *possibly* be done for E12... after we see how many WC people show up to a MW Expo... etc.

WC attendees who show up to MW Expo:

Melanie
Phil
Ian
Beau
Nolan
The new guy from WA
Koala

/WC attendee list of MW Expo

LOL, I may have some more AZ locals (2 Type R, 1 NSX, and other makes/models) available to go this year - depending on when the locale is decided.

Dave-ROR wrote:

B18CXr wrote:but I share many peoples' fears about having NASA involved AT ALL in our event.

<< was wondering when you'd speak up about NASA

I think our NASA (with the current owners) may possibly be the only non-retarded of the regions... Too bad AMP isn't fully opened yet (even though they recently made legal progress on the closed track)!

Dave-ROR wrote:A lot of people are worried that one bad expo, or one far away, will kill/seriously injure expo. Maybe I'm a fool, but I don't think it'd matter if a WC experiment expo failed. Sure, you might lose some people, but IMO the bonds between the "core" group are strong enough to skip a year and still be fine.

It'd be a real bummer if a WC expo did fail, though.

itrsteez wrote:That's where my MAM suggestion stemmed from, make a fun statistics game out of it. It would stop both sides from bitching and moaning. I know ROR expressed a concern about the track location in distance from the hotel which I would say is a valid concern unless arrangements could be made.

Mid Ohio would just be flat out epic, I don't even like mentioning the name.

MAM has been done, what was the EC/WC ratio then?

I don't know the numbers, but I can guess.

Just pick a location and be done with it. Not everyone is going to be happy with the decision.

Too much politics and too much biasing involved IMO.

If the committee is going to have Expo where ever they choose, then have it already!
Do the math, and if it doesn't compute, then don't have one in California. Simple!!!

I don't get why the committee allows this the drag on with all these debates about what is best. All the forum will get are never ending arguments and debates.

Not everyone is going to be happy about the location nor is everyone happy about what others have to say!

So with all due respect; What else is the committee waiting for to confirm a California Expo?

I already understand what it takes to organize a HPDE. So what else is there left to make this happen?

FYI we never know where Expo will be until late winter. Last year we found out well into spring due to complications securing a track. I know you're new to this process, but it takes a great deal of time and man hours on the front end for this event to happen. Please relax and be patient. This isn't as dramatic of a process as you're making it.

IntegraTionR wrote:Too much politics and too much biasing involved IMO.

If the committee is going to have Expo where ever they choose, then have it already!
Do the math, and if it doesn't compute, then don't have one in California. Simple!!!

I don't get why the committee allows this the drag on with all these debates about what is best. All the forum will get are never ending arguments and debates.

Not everyone is going to be happy about the location nor is everyone happy about what others have to say!

So with all due respect; What else is the committee waiting for to confirm a California Expo?

I already understand what it takes to organize a HPDE. So what else is there left to make this happen?

There is a lot of business between various parties to sort out before we can announce anything. It's not as simple as pick it and go.

Nothing to drag on here...

cheezthis wrote: There is a lot of business between various parties to sort out before we can announce anything. It's not as simple as pick it and go.

Nothing to drag on here...

In the process of negotiations.....with different parties at the moment? Ok I can accept that!
Knowing that there are many processes to go through, I like seeing progression; big or small. That's just me!

Seeing how things progress could possibly raise group morale instead of just dropping everything in the end and say:

"Heeeyyyy, here's EXPO, register now"!!!!

Kimo there are contracts involved and money so this kind of stuff take a lot of time. Im sure we won't get an answer till Dec, jan, feb time.

So hold on speed racer, just take a break from Expo hunting.

Rest assured, this event has been going on for ten years. These guys know how to put on and run an event.

<- Time for a beer, glass of wine, or vitamin water, depending on your personal preference. I'm going for a beer.

YellowKahuna wrote:Kimo there are contracts involved and money so this kind of stuff take a lot of time. Im sure we won't get an answer till Dec, jan, feb time.

So hold on speed racer, just take a break from Expo hunting.

I'm perfectly calm!
I understand that the process can take long. Negotiations can be very time consuming!
But knowing that Expo is in negotiation with various parties at this time is reassuring!
Progression is all I care for.

I'd shut-up if I were informed! (The internet can be a bitch. Its only good when people flood it with information; what is the web w/o info.?)
Wouldn't you feel upset or loose interest if you couldn't get the answers you're looking for or not kept informed? I do!