ITRCA

I stumbled across a web page to find this 2003 V6 S2000R

http://www.mcclatchie.com/reviews/S2000R.html

Nah its a definite fake. This has been floating around numerous forums over the past few months. Whoever made this page sure took a lot of time to craft up the idea tho.

Bogus.

Honda? 6-cylinder? Right away it just seems...wrong. Fool sure spent way too much time on it though, coming up with all the specs and everything.

sscguy wrote:Honda? 6-cylinder? Right away it just seems...wrong. Fool sure spent way too much time on it though, coming up with all the specs and everything.

Ever heard of an NSX???

Though, I also think it's a fake, they are supposed to be previewing a S2200 somewhere in the near future, which will be a hard top rather than a drop top...according to road and track any way.

Later,
Aj

Psht, NSXs aren't REAL... heh heh heh. I was referring more to OUR Hondas. Anyway, I've also heard of an S2200, but I thought that was just a modified S2000 engine, not a 6-cylinder or something. That would throw off the whole balance of the car, I'm thinking along the lines of VR6 VW to 4-cylinder VW, and with the VR6s being so heavy in the nose, they understeer like nobody's business.
Out of curiousity, who likes the NSX? I like how they look, but their performance seems disappointing, considering a mildly modified Type R can beat it on the track.

And what track are you talking about? An NSX might run low-13's at the dragstrip with a competent driver but an ITR in no way will be able to keep up with an NSX on a circuit or race track, which is what the NSX was designed for. Please don't confuse a car purpose-built for one type of racing and start making comparisons to another type of racing altogether.

Or do you honestly think a Camaro V8 is a better car than an NSX for the track just because it can go faster in a straight line?

kabob wrote:And what track are you talking about? An NSX might run low-13's at the dragstrip with a competent driver but an ITR in no way will be able to keep up with an NSX on a circuit or race track, which is what the NSX was designed for. Please don't confuse a car purpose-built for one type of racing and start making comparisons to another type of racing altogether.

Or do you honestly think a Camaro V8 is a better car than an NSX for the track just because it can go faster in a straight line?

Great reply! I couldn't have said it better myself.

No, no, I'm not talking about drag racing. For drag racing, no competition, rwd, much more power, etc. the NSX would crush a stock R. On a track such as, just for example, Laguna Seca though, modified Type Rs have had faster lap times than stock NSXs. There was an article on a Mugen prepared R, not a track-only car or anything, still street legal, and it was tearing up NSXs around Laguna Seca. I also have a video clip of a stock Type R and an NSX on the track together (from Best Motoring maybe?) and the Type R, while not flying ahead of the NSX, is never passed up. Granted, the track was wet, which would be an immediate disadvantage for the NSX, but even on the straights the NSX didn't seem ready to pass the R. Am I wrong here, given multiple examples of the R bettering the NSX? Don't get me wrong, I have respect for the NSX, but given the price difference and construction and everything, it just seems like it should be more overpowering. Then again, maybe it's a question of driver ability. Maybe in what I've seen, the drivers of the Rs were just exceptional drivers whereas the NSX ones were more amateur. But then again, there's that Japanese clip, and both drivers are pro racers... Opinions?

I think you're looking too far into those Best Motoring videos I've got a couple of those myself and the same drivers usually drive their cars and sometimes one car will dominate and in the next vid, run mid-pack or worse. Those vids are mainly there for show.

You said lightly modded ITR anyways. And nothing Mugen's ever put out for racing has been anything near lightly modded Look at it this way: If the ITR were so much more superior to the NSX, why is Mugen investing millions of dollars in racing the NSX in the circuit racing Japan Cup and GT Touring Cup series? The NSX is better balanced, stiffer, mid-engine and RWD, etc., etc.

Yeah, lightly moded would be a relative understatement in order to keep up with an NSX at Laguna Seca. Trying to beat a mid engine rear wheel drive v6 on a road coare would prove to be difficult, aside from that, given the same mods, an NSX would still crush an ITR.

On a side note, the NSX is slated for a V8 in the not so distant future, or something along those lines. This way they can keep up with some of their, "exotic" car competition.

As far as the S2200, to the best of my knowledge, they really don't even change the motor much, just the styling cues a little, and make it a hard top, but I'm sure they don't change it to a V6.

Later,
Aj

I was under the impression that the Best Motoring drivers were trying to drive at their fullest to fully compare the cars, but oh well. As for the Mugen R, I say mildly modified meaning (if I remember correctly) Mugen ECU, Mugen suspension, Mugen sway bars, clutch, i/h/e and I think that was it. I believe it was also running on street tires. Am I wrong in thinking that this shouldn't seem like enough to beat an NSX?
As far as the NSX is considered, I know rear wheel drive would be a bit of an advantage, and the mid-engine layout should be as well, though I personally prefer front-engine to mid-engine, but what is the weight-power ratio? And I would assume power curves (correct me if I'm wrong) would be negligible, as both are VTEC engines and would have more power at the top end on the bigger cam, despite one being a 6 and the other a 4. Also, I have no idea, does the NSX come stock with a LSD?
Now if a modified NSX and a modified R raced, yes, the NSX would clearly beat the R, but I wasn't referring to that, just stock NSX vs. modified R. The NSX naturally has more potential, just given the 6-cylinder engine. 500hp on a NA B18C5? I don't think so. But on the NSX's engine (anyone know the code for it?) it seems "relatively" easily attained by competent, though wealthy, tuners.
How about to settle the issue we have someone with a stock NSX race a modified R? Not track-only R, street tires, i/h/e, no aftermarket cams. Is there ANYONE who thinks the R could put up a decent fight? Just to make sure, that was a joke, although I would be interested in seeing the outcome. A standing start would immediately give the NSX an advantage though, so that would have to be toyed with I guess...

In a bit of a different topic, also in a Best Motoring vid, a 4-door R raced an RX-7, and on the straightaways they were about even, with the 7 gaining just a little bit. I know the 7 is rated at 0-60 in like 4.9 sec or something, so right away that seems unrealistic. However, I drove a 7 a few months ago, one that supposedly had recently had the turbos and engine rebuilt, and it sure didn't seem that fast. In fact, the E36 M3 (bone stock) seemed faster. Is this just the power delivery? I would even think with a 7 there would be a real kick in the pants whenever the bigger turbo kicked in, but there wasn't really. Anyone?

All those questions, lol. I'll get back to you when I have time to write out a nice, long response

Yeah, I'm just trying to pass time at work. But I'm done for now, and it's only 11pm! Sorry to all if I seem stupid about this comparison, I'll just need better examples. So anyone want to give me a ride in their NSX? Heh heh heh.

Well, if you're comparing power to weight ratios of the NSX vs. the ITR, I hate to say it, but the NSX has us wooped, but good. The NSX uses a full alluminum frame, and weighs in at just over 2700 lbs, where the ITR weighs just barely less with quite a bit less horse power and torque. So, if you're comparing a new track prepped but otherwise stock NSX to a say 01' modded ITR, the NSX would still run circles around the ITR, hence why it's so much more of an expensive car....

Trust me on this one, in a straight line, the NSX may not be so quick, but on the track, it's a beast!!!! An easy was to illustrate this comparison is to look at Real Time's ITR and NSX, as they run both, frequently with the same driver, and look at the seconds that they shave off in an NSX that is barely moded, as opposed to a pretty heavily moded ITR.

Later,
Aj

I thought the Realtime R wasn't that modded? I mean, prepped, yes, but as far as engine modifications go I thought it was limited basically to tuning and an NSX airbox and open exhaust. Whatever the case, I'll take your word for it, now I'd just like to see it...and drive one...

For the longest time, I also thought it was pretty stock, until I saw them at Sebring and noticed they were using JE pistons amongst many other aftermarket tunner parts.

This is why Roger Fu with his little hatchback which had Skunk2 cams amongst many other things was barely able to beat them, and not even consistantly.

Later,
Aj

The Realtime nsx has a vortech sc on it! Plus half the reason the nsx is so much is the quality and craftmanship of it. Not to many people know that each part is hand picked and matched, even every little screw. My friend is a mechanic at acura and one of the only to in madison certified to work on the car. Acura requires special classes on just the nsx. I think that is pretty cool.

The most important thing to remember is to compare apples with apples.

In rare cicumstances an ITR can be faster than an NSX. But one must first take into consideration many variables which can exploit the strengths of our beloved ITR.
For instance, drivers equal, in the rain the ITR is easier to go faster with and has near unbeatable ABS. On a short track, the ITR loses less to the NSX, etc.

FYI, in 1999 SVWC, two top drivers, P. Kleinubing and P.D. Cunningham raced head to head on the same race track, on the same weekend. Though track conditions vary slightly, this is a great forum to compare lap times. Both cars, prepared by Realtiime Racing are at the limit of the allowed rules, although the ITR has many more restrictions due to its prowess in its own category. oh, BTW, the NSX is supercharged too.

Here are the results......Mosport....fast as hell momentum track...NSX 1.29.99, ITR 1.35.?? best race lap.........Laguna Seca, same format......NSX 1.40, ITR 1.46....see a pattern.
But wait, at Lime Rock park a real momentum only track where HP is just luggage......NSX 1.00.50 and the ITR 1.01??....hummmmmmmm

Anyways, everybody agrees, the NSX spanks the ITR...all things equal. But with several key mods on the ITR, it can make an unsuspecting NSX driver wonder, trust me , I know.

My 0.02 cents CDN

Thanks BBQMan, seeing the actual lap times helps a lot. I'm curious though, considering the NSX is supercharged, how would the Realtime R match up against a more stock NSX? Would the results still be in favor of the NSX? Also curious, doesn't the NSX have some kind of special ABS, or is it just a basic ABS setup?
One other thing concerning the Realtime R, with JE pistons, were they just forged, or did they raise compression or something? I would think if they were stock, just stronger that would be strictly for reliability, or maybe for reliability above 9K rpm?

JE Pistons are forged. They just make their pistons that way.

BTW, your earlier question about the LSD (since everybody else answered the other ones ), yes the NSX has an electronic, torque-sensing rear limited slip differential. I believe the S2000's Torsen rear limited-slip is the same or similar unit as the NSX.

No, I know JE pistons are forged, but do they raise compression at all or do they keep stock compression? If they kept stock compression their only purpose is for greater reliability, right?

Honestly, I didn't think to ask what compression they were running, but I would imagine since, in most series there is a mandated minimum for fuel of 100 octane, for whatever reason, I would think they would take advantage of that, and raise it up some, but once again, I have no idea. Given that they don't have a web page, I guess we'll just have to waite till the next time one of us sees them at the track....

Later,
Aj