ITRCA

I heard that the B16B pistons have higher compression than the B18C5's and i wanted to know what my compression ratio would end up with the B16B pistons? Also wanted to add a thinner head gasket/any recommendations on gaskets brand, size, etc?

Also should I send the head to the machine shop to get shaved? How much should i get it shaved?

I was thinking of getting around a 12:5.1 or 13:1.0 comp.

Thanks

my opinion:

B16B pistons dont belong in anything but a B16B. buy real pistons. B16B pistons have a higher compression height to get get the higher compression numbers, and that moves the top of the piston way close to the head.
and that compression is to high.
machining the head for compression, and thinner head gaskets? see above. plus not the right way to be getting compression. buy the right pistons.
thinner headgasket on a honda, really isnt getting you much for compression.

in closing. the all OEM B18C5 is a solid motor. buy bolt ons...

I'm awaiting jacks reply, I know he's all for these things.

turbohf wrote:my opinion:

B16B pistons dont belong in anything but a B16B. buy real pistons. B16B pistons have a higher compression height to get get the higher compression numbers, and that moves the top of the piston way close to the head.
and that compression is to high.

I don't get your logic here. As long as your clearances and cam timing are correct with enough spring pressure that's not an issue.

Definitely not too high either.

I think there are quite a few details missing from this post. Some examples being, What are the long term goals for this build? What will the application(s) be?

CRX-R wrote:I heard that the B16B pistons have higher compression than the B18C5's.

The phrasing in this sentence implies doubt. CTR pistons do have a higher than dome than USDM ITR or JDM ITR pistons. CTR's are also one of the heaviest pistons. For a stock setup though, they are recommended from a source I trust.

CRX-R wrote: I wanted to know what my compression ratio would end up with the B16B pistons?

Go here: http://www.zealautowerks.com/bseries.html

CRX-R wrote: Also wanted to add a thinner head gasket/any recommendations on gaskets brand, size, etc?

I don't recommend using a thinner head gasket in combination with these pistons.

CRX-R wrote: should I send the head to the machine shop to get shaved? How much should i get it shaved?

No, never. Again, never. It's single handily one of the worst decisions you can make. Even more so when a shop does it without asking. It forever changes your head and it is metal you can't put back. Everything from tensioning a timing belt to planning a future build are altered. B-Series heads can be very sensitive to head shaving, so please, do not even consider letting someone shave your head. It would also be suicide CR to add a shaved head, CTR pistons, and a two-layer head gasket together.

CRX-R wrote: I was thinking of getting around a 12:5.1 or 13:1.0 comp.

Why are you wanting this high of a CR? Will this car see much daily driver/street time? While I'm aware this setup came be down on the street, I don't recommend it.

Erik95LS wrote: I don't get your logic here. As long as your clearances and cam timing are correct with enough spring pressure that's not an issue.

Definitely not too high either.

I would go this route if I could. Sadly, that choice was made without my consent.

Erik95LS wrote:

turbohf wrote:my opinion:

B16B pistons dont belong in anything but a B16B. buy real pistons. B16B pistons have a higher compression height to get get the higher compression numbers, and that moves the top of the piston way close to the head.
and that compression is to high.

I don't get your logic here. As long as your clearances and cam timing are correct with enough spring pressure that's not an issue.

Definitely not too high either.

im talking about physical contact of piston to head.

Well the engine will never see daily driving, its mainly for track and some occasional street use. I am just looking for around 200whp right now so if I can get this much power without changing the pistons that would be great.

turbohf wrote: im talking about physical contact of piston to head.

Like Erik said, with a stock setup, proper timing, there shouldn't be any issues.

CRX-R wrote:Well the engine will never see daily driving, its mainly for track and some occasional street use. I am just looking for around 200whp right now so if I can get this much power without changing the pistons that would be great.

I'm confused. You said it won't see daily driving but it will see occasional street use...

200whp is easily reached without changing pistons. Just get a SC or Turblow.

When you say track, do you mean drag strip or an actual track like road course HPDE's?

In all seriousness, what is the fixation on 200whp? I'm picking up that this may be a newer venture. I would recommend saving your money, researching heavily on this subject, etc. You may find there is an alternative route that is cheaper and better meets your goals in the long run. An example would be purchasing quality bolt-ons that could bring you very close to your current HP goals and minimize your car's downtime.

Quality I/H/E and your almost there to 200 WHP without internal mods.

Dave_B wrote:Quality I/H/E and your almost there to 200 WHP without internal mods.

truth, that's my suggestion. Albeit a little more expensive there's still less bullshit to deal with. I like that I can plug in a stock ECU and get an emissions inspection with no issue and run pump gas with no CEL's

KISS has proven the best method from my experience.

coolhandluke wrote:

turbohf wrote: im talking about physical contact of piston to head.

Like Erik said, with a stock setup, proper timing, there shouldn't be any issues.

CRX-R wrote:Well the engine will never see daily driving, its mainly for track and some occasional street use. I am just looking for around 200whp right now so if I can get this much power without changing the pistons that would be great.

I'm confused. You said it won't see daily driving but it will see occasional street use...

200whp is easily reached without changing pistons. Just get a SC or Turblow.

When you say track, do you mean drag strip or an actual track like road course HPDE's?

In all seriousness, what is the fixation on 200whp? I'm picking up that this may be a newer venture. I would recommend saving your money, researching heavily on this subject, etc. You may find there is an alternative route that is cheaper and better meets your goals in the long run. An example would be purchasing quality bolt-ons that could bring you very close to your current HP goals and minimize your car's downtime.

Well track car meaning rare dragstrip,hpde,autocross & trying to get into scca racing hopefully.

Well see heres the thing i am trying to beat my buddies all motor V6 accord that he currently runs 13.1's and we did a 40 roll at the dragstrip and he got me by like 2 car distance now i know if I can get maybe like 20whp or just buy some slicks i can get him. I probably would of already beaten him on that 40 roll if i didn't have the heavy roll cage inside, But i know i can beat him with some slicks, but i really don't want to beat him with slicks cause he don't got slicks so it's not the same. This is just a rivalry i been trying to get ahead of. I know he will be disappointed in himself if i can beat him with a 4 banger.

Maybe instead of doing piston am going to finish my 2.5inch exhaust with a straight through muffler & get tuned with a hondata s100. Maybe i can put out around 180 or so with that setup and just race him again to see were am at.

13 second drag car? Snooooorrrrrrrrre

Get it out on the real track then evaluate your new goals.

and if you're looking to get into SCCA racing whatever you do internally will very likely be illegal in whatever class you're looking at (other than a select few)

Erik95LS wrote:and if you're looking to get into SCCA racing whatever you do internally will very likely be illegal in whatever class you're looking at (other than a select few)

Yea you might be right on that one i just havnt looked at the rules, but what are they gonna do open up my engine right there at inspection lol

itrsteez wrote:13 second drag car? Snooooorrrrrrrrre

Get it out on the real track then evaluate your new goals.

My main goal for this car is for it to be a road racing car not a drag. I just like taking it to the 1/4 every so often.

Whats the most that someone has gotten out of the stock ITR engine with just bolt ons?

CRX-R wrote:

Erik95LS wrote:and if you're looking to get into SCCA racing whatever you do internally will very likely be illegal in whatever class you're looking at (other than a select few)

Yea you might be right on that one i just havnt looked at the rules, but what are they gonna do open up my engine right there at inspection lol

If your running obviously faster than the competition, they will at Nat's.

Dave_B wrote:

CRX-R wrote:

Erik95LS wrote:and if you're looking to get into SCCA racing whatever you do internally will very likely be illegal in whatever class you're looking at (other than a select few)

Yea you might be right on that one i just havnt looked at the rules, but what are they gonna do open up my engine right there at inspection lol

If your running obviously faster than the competition, they will at Nat's.

not to mention they can greatly penalize you, add weight to the car, or not allow you to race. Some groups dyno check cars also.

Yes, at Nationals, they will disqualify for the smallest things. Just ask the round of DQs in D-Stock for things such as vacuum hoses in the wrong place, missing air filter rubber gaskets, etc. Two very well-known former DS drivers/champions were constantly protested for having illegal engine and anything else. They were legal, but if you're performing at the top consistently, people will be curious and look for reasons to DQ you.

Don't let that scare you though. If you just want to do track days, it really doesn't matter. I'd keep it simple and stockish though for reliability and learning sake though.

Even at NASA TT events they will do dyno checks. Andy recent had his EG flagged and dyno'd.

OP- My biggest recommendation is to figure what you want long term before spending any money. You may learn (quickly) that straightline performance is usually something most outgrow rather quickly.

CRX-R wrote:Whats the most that someone has gotten out of the stock ITR engine with just bolt ons?

I think you're focusing too much on this whp number, it's not important. Especially considering that every dyno is different.

Pump your money into quality bolt ons (especially the header, I suggest SMSP because dave is the man) and keep your car reliable.

Get out on track and your goals will drastically change, please do that before spending any money.

Peak WHP means nothing. Mid range power and torque (if you wanna call it that) is what your after.

If you are looking for power, get rid of that crap and do a K swap. K24a2 has great low and mid range power/torque. Amazing for road racing. Even driving around on the streets my car feels like a total beast. It put down 180wtq. I took it to the track last Friday and ran a 13.000 @ 106 on the first run with a shitty 1.9 60ft. 2nd run I snapped an axle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN6I11GZ_h8