ITRCA

Hey what do you guys think of the new WRX Sti 2004 compared to the Type R?

It's the one car that would make me seriously consider selling my Type R. 300 Hp all wheel drive.. Only bad thing is the price, but when you look at it, it really is a bargain for what you get and so was the Type R.

You can't honestly compare the two together, One is a NA sub 2.0L fwd 2dr and the other is a complete opposite.

But they are both fun to drive I'm sure and both will be the center of attraction for time to come, But what I'm saying it that An R is an R and A STi is an STi-

For what it is worth, I would like to own the STi with My R but...

I would agree that the STi is an awsome machine but it is just out of my price range. For the last couple of days I thought about selling the R after the summer but I havent really used the full potential of my R yet so I am going to stick with it. Now, on the other hand if I had the money to get a STi I would sure get rid of the R but it is out of reach. I think so far it is the best performing car for the money just like the R has been since 97.

The press embargo will be lifted on May 1st, then we should start seeing some press about the new STi. My first impression was, what a great car. But I keep hearing bad things about the new gearbox and the new motor on the Subaru boards. Time will tell. I do think it's a very neat car and a worthy successor (or partner) with the R, but not sold on the reliabilty of it yet, especially given the current WRX's propensity to munch gearboxes and Subaru's unwillingness to repair them under warranty.

Well, it depends on what you want to do with your car, the R from the factory comes with a radio..hahah...but seriously, it's a nice ride, but i'm not big on the way rally cars handle on the street, and in addition a 30K price tag before dealer add ons, I think I'd rather a 350Z or an RX8 when it hits the market. The STi is a grocery getter with toys, not a sports car, keep that in mind when you go to look at it. Fast, maybe, but never as much fun to drive as an ITR....

Later,
Aj

A grocery getter with toys?? I don't agree man. If the thing's got better acceleration, better grip, better stopping power etc.. why would it be not as much fun to drive as an ITR? granted they're totally different.. I mean, I have an ITR too but I'm not a die hard..

Well, better grip is relative, if you're talking about the street on a rainy day, perhaps that's the case, but, as far as high speed street driving, or on a road course at speed, swinging around the weight of an all wheel drive car, especially a heavy four door, isn't such a great thing, unless it's raining. With a set of slicks, the playing field is pretty level any way, and if anything, It's a lot easier to set up an ITR for road racing than a scooby. The sccoby really was intended for rally not road racing.

As far as out accelerating, that's tru, but, the drive train on those cars feels like crap, and really does feel like you're driving a four door, not at all like the fit and finish of an ITR tranny, nor does it have the appeal of a 9,000 rpm readline, or 15lb flywheel. It maybe slower, but the type-R still has that sort of go-cart feel to it, that really provides a more sports car feel, that is nearly impossible to get out of a subaru.

I dont have time to rally personally, nor the budget, but I do love to road race, and if it's a question of what makes a better road race car, I think you'd have to agree that the ITR is hard to match...

As I said, it's my opinion. As far as the grocery getter comment. It's the same thing I say about the Lancer and other cars like that, when you look at the base model, it's a grocery getter, and add ten grand to anything, and I can make it fast, stop, and handle well, numbers are only that, numbers. Not that I'm a big fan of it, but compare the RSX-R to the STi, and other than straightline accaleration, it's a poor competitor. And if you want to go by that scale, you can also say that the Neon SRT-4 isn't a grocery getter, cause it also out accelerates, out brakes, and out slaloms an ITR....you dont want to hear my opinion on the SRT-4!!!

Any way, Later,
Aj

Yeah.. I'll agree about fit and finish for sure.. There's not much comparison in that department. I've always owned hondas anyways. I did test drove the regular WRX a while ago and the shifter felt like crap.. I'll have to wait though for the Sti test. I still think it's a cool car that has a lot going for it. I don't mind the 4 doors either. As for rallying, did you ever see that guy who did the Pikes Peak hill climb in a Type R?? haha! That was a few years ago.. I think he did pretty well actually!!

Actually, he also road races a civic hatch with a swap. I had a long conversation with him when he was down here at Sebring. Kool guy, and actually a lot younger than I though he would be. He acutally got disqualified cause he didn't tech his car in time, but he was a great driver for the couple 25 minute sessions he was out for...

Any way, I dont disagree about the Scooby being a cool car, but in relative terms to an R, I wouldn't switch personally.

Later,
Aj

On paper the STI looks great 300HP,300TQ that's nice, but I've never driven one (Even though their popular as hell in Europe), not even an EVO so AJ's comments are interesting about the specs. I think a four door Subaru would be a lot heavier, plus the all wheel drive. So you sacrifice a lot when you switch from an ITR to a Scooby or EVO. Not a lot can match the acceleration of that R to it's rev limit. It's somthing out of this world! (for me at least) Think about it, that low sance of the ITR the B18C5 scream, the box look of the STI, the handling of the R, need I say more?


Speed junkie 101

Yeah, that's really an excellent point, the STi and EVO are paper bulls, they may be stated out well, but in actuality, lateral grip on the skid pad and slalom only mean if you drive both cars in circles or through closely placed cones one may proce to be better than the other. In all reality though, I dont drive in circles, and I dont often run into cones while I'm on the street, well, unless I've been drinking a lot. The ITR really is a more fun car to drive. Drive both, and I think you may tend to agree......

Later,
Aj

Well Spoken...

Speed junkie 101

Here we go again !! Ever since the WRX came to be, everyone is comparing it to the ITR and saying how much faster the WRX is. HELLO !!! These are two entirely different cars built with different intentions. Don't compare them. Buy and drive what you like and what you can afford. The Scooby is an awesome car in its class and so is the ITR.

ok i like both cars but you are all right its comparing 2 totally different things. for one the sti is turbo and 2.0 with all wheel drive while the R is 1.8 N/A front wheel drive. that right there is enough because a turbo in any car will totally change the car. ( the neon for example) the all wheel vs. front drive is totally unfair too because they also have a differential control to change the power ratio so they could probably be great drift cars with a good driver whilethe R is front and for the most part alot of people can hadel it to a decent level, not to extremes tho.

i just think you shouldnt be looking at these 2 car trying to compare them because the R is truely a factory race car but is has some nice "Lurury" features too it. the STI is a bigger car i think they come in at close to 3000 lbs thats almost 500 lb difference between the 2.

you should be comparing the STI and the EVO for 2 good cars to compare because of the fact that they weigh about the same and have very close horsepower. my opinion tho would be to have both

After reading a couple of mag review on STi & Evo, I think Evo would have similar characteristics as an R on the streets & at the track.

But, strictly comparing an STi & an R, I would keep the R if it's my weekend/autoX/track car. If it's for everyday driving, I would much rather have a 4-dr w/ 300hp. ITR isn't that comfortable to commute in. I've done it for 9 months straight and it wasn't comfortable. (hash suspension on local roads + lack of torque)

If I had $35k and had an option of choosing between the two (both new), I would probably try out the STi (for daily driver + weekend/autoX/track). If you don't like it, sell it and get an R.

m0veb1tch wrote:Hey what do you guys think of the new WRX Sti 2004 compared to the Type R?

I recently looked at both the STi and the EVO as a replacement vehicle.

I decided to keep the ITR and use an EP3 for daily transport.

Although both cars are big steps up from the ITR, performance wise, neither of them seemed to offer enough of a performance advantage to be worth dumping the ITR.

The EVO driving experience is a little more raw and a little more like the ITR experience than the STi is.

However, I've heard a couple of knowledgeable people say that they'd buy the STi instead, simply because of Subaru's reliability record and warranty experience.

subaru's reliability record?

historically they have been notoriously problamatic vehicles. They are well known for thier head gasket leaks, among other problems.

I have never heard someone touting subaru as having a good reliability record.

That said i think they have made huge leaps in the last few years, but lets wait and see what the newer models look like at 100k or 150k to start touting them as having a good reliability record.

I think you guys are all a little too biased towards the ITR. I own one and love it, but dont think its the god of all cars. The STI is practically a supercar with stock 1/4 mile as quick as 13.1 and handling to match, not to mention the convenience of a 4 door and the aftermarket potential of a turbo. Other features that i like is that it has the rarity of a type R and all wheel drive. I dont think think there is any car including the type R, other than the evo 8 that can come anywhere close to matching the STI in all around performance and convenience. Just my opinion though and i respect all the others...

ADAM

That's a little different that what I've heard. Subaru deny's claims for the notorious second gear failures claiming the only way they could fail is due to abuse. I also know of two SCCA Solo II competitors driving WRX's each on their third gearbox.

Subaru's own press release a few months ago stated their new 350hp motor (for '06 or something) completely overwhelmed the current STi 6 speed and causes it to fail. Most owners of the STi I'm sure will bump the car up a little getting it close to that HP level. Doesn't make me comfortable that Subaru has witnessed the gearboxes self destruct with that much horsepower and recognize it's too weak.

Several tuners (as reported on NASOIC) are also saying the new 2.5L motor fails quite easily with any increases in boost, telling owners to leave the motors stock.

I haven't heard any EVO stories to develop an opinion of their reliability, but other Mitsu cars are far below that of an average Honda. I would expect an EVO to be similar.

George Knighton wrote:

m0veb1tch wrote:Hey what do you guys think of the new WRX Sti 2004 compared to the Type R?

However, I've heard a couple of knowledgeable people say that they'd buy the STi instead, simply because of Subaru's reliability record and warranty experience.

I appreciate the followup from members knowledgeable about the STi.

Thanks.

It does, of course, make me even happier that I decided to stay with the Hondas.