George Knighton wrote:To get the best out of it, however, you need to get a good tuner to spend time on the dyno. To get the best out of a Hondata, you should count on paying someone for as much as a couple of hours on the dyno.
I'm not sure about in Northern Virginia, but down here at the couple places in Florida that tune Hondata, charge between 350-500, depending on whether it needs to be tunned for boost. I wish I could get someone to tune it for just a couple hours on the dyno. I turns into more like 4 or 5....Next time, I might just take the trip up to where you are.
In addition to having the Hondata tunned, which you need to do, as they don't come with any base map at all, not to mention only being able to be purchased from an authorized dealer any way, you also need to start out with an OBD1 ecu such as a P28, P06, P72, etc. in addition to a wiring conversion if your car is OBD2 and then have the ECU converted on top of that so that it will accept the hondata. All a hondata really is, is a program that allows you to tune and modify the stock rom chip in the ECU, and the only reason for the little blue box, is that it decodes the program, so this way you can't cheat and just use their chips on another ECU that doesn't have hondata. Now with the invent of the S100, you dont even need the blue box, it just sits inside the ECU and is about half the size of a ritz cracker.
I run the S100 I mentioned, but keep in mind, the retail price of $245, doesn't include the cost of a an ecu often between 2 and 400 bucks, a conversion harness often between 1 and 200 bucks, the conversion, which Ive seen cost as much as 150 bucks, plus the more expensive tunning over a piggy back, any where from about I guess 200 where George lives or as much as 500 where I live. You can expect to pay close to a grand to get it working and tunned in total. Keeping in mind that $245 I mentioned for the Hondata is the base system and is only good for all motor cars without any options...
As far as aftermarket ECUs go, not all of them are modifiable ecu's, most of them are just reporgrammed, much like the Hondata, but are set in stone, so you can't change it. The problem with ECU's such as this, is that they aren't tunned specifically for your application, and can be too rich or too lean in certain places. Not to mention, if you are currently OBD2, you will still need the afore mentioned wiring harness adapter and OBD1 ecu. Which If you can find one, I would recomend a P72 as it retains the factory knock sensor, which is mostly useless, but may keep you out of trouble regardless. I would personally recomend a JNS knock sensor if it's in the budget. The nice thing about using an OBD1 ecu, is that the chips are about 15-20 bucks depending, and some can even be reused. It's just somewhat difficult to find a place that will tune rom chips, as it's really a big pain in the butt.
As far as ECUs being plug and play, they pretty much are, provided you bought the harness adapter, you could very very easily figure it out with no instructions, all you need is a ten milimeter socket and an extension, and you could do it no problem in less than ten minutes. On a side note though, keep in mind that an OBD1 ecu is larger than your factory OBD2 ecu, so you will not be able to reuse the cage that held the old one in place without either a lot of banging or cutting, in which case, most people just leave it off, and use the nuts and bolts to just hold it in place.
As far as a Vafc goes, they are not difficult to install at all, provided that you are a compitant solderer (is that a word?), the only wires that you should solder are those that are signal wires, the rest you can just "t" tab. This way no signal is lost or gained in say a messy "butt" connector which the Vafc comes with. As far as a mechanic goes to install stuff such as a Vafc, unless he's done it before, he's no more qualified than you. All the Apex-i products come with a good wiring diagram and tell you which wire goes where. Honestly, if you're going to take it some place to get done, you're probably better off taking it to a good stereo shop that has practice installing alarms and such. Just explain to them that everything but the power and ground wires needs to be soldered. Also, make sure that they know that there are two ground wires, which need to be placed on the same wire, but one closer to the ecu than the other. most stereo shops have more practice wiring and soldering than a mechanic would, and are used to running after market wiring in cars, so they know where to hide all the wire, rather than leaving it dangling. I'm not sure if they have "sound advice" up there, but they are all pretty good down here.
As far as needing to tune both a V-afc and an ECU; what most people do, at least those who are relatively stock, and havn't gone into the head. They just use a Vafc to tune the car, which can be done in at most two hours on the dyno, and that's for a relative notvice. Some people who dont want to go stand alone, and already have a vafc, but have chosen to modify their head so that they can increase their red line, often buy an OBD1 ECU and use the Vafc to fine tune it.
The Vafc is a nice tool, but uses too much interpolation for serious modification, and can only be fine tuned to a certain degree. Often when switching to ODB1 and utilizing a VAFC, you can expect to run into idle problems, which to say the least is really really annoying. Mainly due to different amounts of timing or fuel, or a possibly different IAVC calibration, or TPS calibration, not easily fixed, this is especially tru with larger injectors. Keep in mind also that the VAFC does not allow you to change timing, just fuel, thus the invent of the Power FC, which I believe Trey is very happy with.
Any way, to make a long story short, if you plan to leave your car close to stock, ie, mainly bolt ons, than a VAFC is a great tunning tool, but once you get into serious mods, it really is no longer sufficient, and is more of a band aid than anything else.
Talk to Matt at Hondata, he knows far more than I, and can give you some good advice...
Good luck,
Aj
