Questions how to reach 200whp with a B18C-R

e r i c s 9 9 s i · Post by **e r i c s 9 9 s i** » May 11th, 2003, 5:01 pm

I just baught a 98+ JDM B18C-R engine for my '99 Civic Si and I am looking to produce (my goal) 200whp with this motor. Previously I was boosted with a Turbo Kit (10psi) on a built b20vtec motor which I've finally decided to sell and go with a N/A motor due to all the previous hassels just to keep the motor running....also it wasn't very daily driven friendly.

I've been researching a little bit about the J-Spec ITR's and what good parts are needed though everyone has a differnet opinion. The motor I have now came with the OEM 4-1 collector header and I've been reading that this is a part that I can keep without upgrading if I wish. Would a DC 4-1 header be better? I'll be transfering from the old motor my cam gears (prolly set them at +2 Intake, 0 Exhaust), AEM fuel stuff, and clutch and flywheel to the ITR motor. As far as intakes, I've read I have a option between the AEM and the Comptech Icebox....what about the new AEM V2 intake? Exhaust wise they've mentioned either SMSP or a Buddy Club Spec 3... The SMSP is a little on the pricey side ($975) for me for a exhaust I know nothing about as far as looks, sound, etc... Before I got into boost I had a 2.5" GReddy Evo exhaust which I really liked the sound, looks, etc..

Idealy, I'm looking for a 200whp that is easily daily driven without to much maintance... I'll be upgrading to 310cc injectors soon, however I was wondering what you ITR folks thought? What intake and exhaust do you guys have? Would pretty much any 2.5" exhaust work? Do any of you have ITR motors in a 96-00 civic coupe? what exhaust would I have to order to make it fit? I'm assuming for a Civic Coupe, or would I have to buy one for a integra coupe?

Is 200whp daily driven a hard task for the JDM ITR without emptying your wallet? People have mentioned Ferrea Nitrite Coated Valves, Bronze Valve Guides, and Ti-Retainers, and others say leave the head alone. I'd like to use the factory cams that came with the motor if that helps... The reason I chose the jdm spec in the first place was I always see and hear people upgrading to JDM pistons, rods, etc... so I figured that buying the j-spec R motor would save me the hassel of buying lots of extra parts because all these upgradable parts would come factory in this motor...

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get everything done before I put the motor in the car cause its a lot easier to work on the motor not leaning over half the car. Thanks for reading!

Aj · Post by Aj » May 11th, 2003, 6:18 pm

There, there are some differences between the J-spec motor and the US spec motor, the main difference are the pistons, and in some of the older US spec motors cams as well...Other than that, for the most part, they are the same. As far as hitting 200whp, you will empty your wallet to some degree, but a lot less than you did with your last setup from what it sounds like.

As far as the EVO exhaust...if you like loud, it's not a bad way to go, but definitely be aware, with no cat...it's mad raspy.

As far as Intake goes...I'm a big fan of the ICEbox...it works well and sounds good while not being too loud.

Test pipe...well I'd get one if you don't need to worry about emissions, but otherwise a high flow cat would be a worthwhile investment and necesary with a set of high lift cams for best results.

Which brings me back to the whole 200whp thing....you will more than likely need to go into the head, assuming you don't want to do the bottom end. My suggestion would be a set of Skunk2 or Toda cams, you don't need to go too overkill, and in fact with only 11.1:1 compression, it would actually be detrimental to do so. Try like a set of Skunk2 Stage 2 cams along with their springs and retainers, that will set you back about 1100 bucks give or take. Then I'd look into a Hondata, an S100 will more than suffice for an all motor car. You already have a good header, then just look into a high flow exhaust, and yes anything that's actually 2.5 inches is fine, although that being said, also difficult to find on a budget. With a couple other litttle bolt ons that you'd probably do anyway, that should put you at or over 200whp...oh yeah, almost forgot...Tunning, lots and lots of tunning!!

Good luck...

Later,
Aj

e r i c s 9 9 s i · Post by **e r i c s 9 9 s i** » May 11th, 2003, 10:16 pm

great advice AJ... I'm actually thinking about doing different cams later on down the road as well as new valvetrain though I'd like to research all my options to those first. As far as a budget, obviously I know this sport is spendy at times though I'm not worried about spending a few thousands if the motors going to be reliable... I dunno how many thousands I put into my b20vtec turbo and it was always something else here and there...

I currently have a Hondata 3b right now, though I was wondering if I could change it so it'll work with my new application minus the boost option... I love hondata and I'll be trading or selling my 3b if I have to in order to get unit that will work with what I have currently... If you know anyone that has a N/A hondata and is looking into boost, I'll be more than happy to switch them...

Any other advice?? Thanks

itr · Post by **itr** » May 12th, 2003, 12:29 am

whats the best cat for all motor

Aj · Post by Aj » May 12th, 2003, 1:14 am

I'm pretty sure, even with the boost option, you can still use it for all motor, I guess you just don't use the boost option, though I'm sure either way, i you call Matt at Hondata, he'll be able to help you with it.

As far as some other options go....cheap way, although I'm not a big fan of it...a 70 shot wet, would put you somewhere around 200whp, and that's about as inexpensive as you can get for that amount of power...

You could also try extrude honing your intake manifold, have Kingmotorsport bore out your TB and intake manifold a couple mm. Get a lightened flywheel...use your Hondata, cam gears, and what ever else you have from the old one. Just bolt ons alone and a properly tunned standalone should put you in the low 190's which although not 200, it's pretty damn close, and without killing the reliability of the motor. I've found that no matter how good your motor builder is, or the parts you buy...you're still going to run into some sort of issue once you start monkeying around with internals...that's my take on it any ways.

Good luck with what ever you decide...

Later,
Aj

e r i c s 9 9 s i · Post by **e r i c s 9 9 s i** » May 12th, 2003, 9:33 pm

anyone have any sound clips of the Buddy Club Spec 3 exhaust?? Also, Aj, if I can get up close to 200whp like around 190+ with just bolt ons then I'll be more than happy... I've been a nitrous fan a few years back, though I doubt I'll put the bottle on this motor...

Aj · Post by Aj » May 13th, 2003, 1:34 am

No sounds clips, but I have heard it one my friend Darren's car; he works at Pacific performance in Ft. Lauderdale...they sell that exhaust there...if you call, tell him I sent you and he might hook you up...It sounds good with the baffle in, but a little loud without...

As far as 190+ with bolt one, it shouldn't be that hard, ask George, he posted his graphs of like 190 something with just bolt ons...

Later,
Aj

George Knighton · Post by **George Knighton** » May 13th, 2003, 10:14 am

Aj wrote:As far as 190+ with bolt one, it shouldn't be that hard, ask George, he posted his graphs of like 190 something with just bolt ons....

OK.... LOL.... I'll bite.

You don't need to spend an absolute fortune or go FA to get 200 horses.

The car in the graph above still has a catalytic converter and still gets 30 miles per gallon.

The header, converter and cat back are all from SMS Products. The exhaust is fairly quiet, but it is louder than stock so you need to be careful if you like to show off and/or your locality has one of those laws that forbid non-stock-like exhausts. Obviously, you could get 3-5 more horsepower by dropping the catalytic converter and retuning the ECU.

The ECU is the cheapest Hondata available (S100 P28), and was tuned by Steve Sakai (link in signature). Sakai is rapidly getting attention as one of the best tuners on the East Coast, and there's a group in British Columbia and California talking about paying to bring him to the West Coast to do some tuning for them.

My VTEC is set very low, but you can tell from the torque band that it obviously works. The idea was to produce a track car that I could use without getting caught off the cam.

The intake is a Comptech Icebox. If you wanted to get more horsepower to show up on the dyno, a cheap filter on a stick will show up better on the dyno...but it might not give you the most on the track, and you might not have the throttle response you want.

Fuel rail is stock, injectors are stock, although the injectors were checked for flow. Part of tuning a Hondata will usually involve buying a fuel pressure gauge and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator, but these items are relatively cheap.

Cams are stock. Valve lash is stock. Cam gears were changed to Skunk2 adjustables and it was part of the ECU tuning to improve the cam timing slightly.

Although the car has 71,000 miles on it, the bottom end tested as quite healthy, so Dave (SMSP) and Steve (SG-T) elected not to even think about CTR pistons or anything like that.

What they did instead was bump the compression about 0.50 by milling the cylinder head, and some mild porting and polishing was done at the same time.

Driving with this motor is a dream. There's a lot of torque down low, so you don't mind too much tooling around town staying off the cam and getting 30 miles per gallon.

When you do need to get somewhere, the motor pulls strongly all the way to 9000 (9500 on the tach) without a hitch or evident flat spot.

It's hilarious.

And it didn't cost all that much.

I know that there are lots of people who can produce charts with higher horsepower, but this suits me just fine.