ITRCA

Hey all. I have been lurking around here for a while and decided to final post. I have a Black 2000 ITR (#413). It is coming up on 60,000 miles and I have been kicking around the idea of getting a JRSC. Now understand that I am NOT looking for crazy horsepower numbers. I just want some additional power down low in the RPMs primarily for driving in the canyons. I am considering the high boost supercharger kit from Moss Performance as it comes with a reprogrammed hondata reprogrammed ECU (I would want to use the hondata ecu with any form of forced induction), RC 440 cc injectors, and three extra pulleys (5.5, 8 and 11 psi). I would probably run 8 psi, but perhaps the 11 psi if it wasn't too hard on the engine. See the Moss kit here

http://www.mossperformance.com/Shop/Vie ... exID=36061

Here are my questions, what else do I need to help keep from damaging the engine? I believe that the Type R JRSC kit comes with an in-tank higher capacity fuel pump. Will the moss kit as it stands give me sufficient protection from detonation? What else should I consider? I plan on doing all of the wrenching myself in my garage. The only thing that I will probably have done by someone else is the fine tuning on a dyno. Should I just shut up and leave the beautiful Type R stock (except for the CAI, DC 4-1 header, 16s and various suspension upgrades that I have currently)? I don’t care about the money as much is doing it right and doing it myself. Just thought that I would get some opinions. Any thoughts?

For that money, just turbo it, intercooling gives you a margin of safety over detonation. On a gear to gear supercharger, your intake charge temps get very high, so you will be on the edge of detonating depends on what octane fuel you can find.

It's the age-old dilemma.

Yeah, I know. It is the old turbo vs supercharger question. But I really concerned about turbo lag. Now before I get flamed, I am not a turbo hater. On the contrary, turbos are the king regarding mid to top end performance. From what I understand (I could be waaaay off base), turbo lag is still present in the lower RPMs even with smaller turbos. Now I know that the JRSC isn't perfect in that regard either, but I would think that it would be pretty hard to notice. Remember I want more power lower in the RPM range. Also, I am not looking forword to having to tap into my oil pan for the turbo. The idea of a sealed low maintenance roots supercharger is really appealing.

The no intercooler option does have me a little annoyed, however. I suppose I could go with the liquid injection with the JRSC, but I don't know that almost seems like a gimick. I haven't really looked into the liquid injection option, though. I was hoping that the combination of the hondata ECU which I believe can vary the ignition timing on the fly coupled with the larger injectors would keep detonation under control. But here in Colorado, the 91 octane poor excuse for gas did have me really concerned. Perhaps an intercooled turbo is a better option.

I really wanted to go with a kit that includes a reprogrammed ECU (preferably hondata). Are there any turbo kits that have reprogrammed hondata ECU (or other ECU)? I really don't want to go with any piggy back systems unless absolutely necessary. Maybe I should just leave the engine stock. Decisions, decisions. Thanks for the heads up Jan.

find a T28BB and HKS manifold and you are set turboed. then there will be no lag...the 18G I use I make boost at 1500rpms. there are a few IC kits for the JRSC. so a search on honda-tech and you should see them. or use water injection and keep that timing turned back

Hondata has base maps already done for boosted Rs, so it's not a huge tuning ordeal to go through to get it running right.
Good luck with your setup.

I don't think you will pass the Colorado emissions test with a turbo. Not sure about that; just something you should check out.

There is an intercooler option from LHT. He has posted a lot about it on Honda-tech.com and in the "forced induction integra" forum on hostboard.com. It sounds good but for some mysterious reason there have never been any dyno results posted. The JR water spray system doesn't improve power. If you have hondata to control the fuel and timing then detonation will not be a problem. In that case I think the water spray would be a waste of money.

The one thing that I am CERTAIN about is that you should go with th 10-11 psi from the very beginning. With the hondata it will be very safe, and you WILL want that extra power. Since the basemap you get from hondata will be preset for a certain boost level then go ahead and get the highest. I had the stock (5-6 psi) jrsc on my R for less than a year before I paid for the boost upgrade.

The only other suggestion I have is cooler sparkplugs. You should also order an extra belt for the blower. It is a simple job to replace one if it brakes, but it could take a while to get the part from JR. You can buy the belt at most any local autoshop, but JR won't give out the part number. They want you to buy from them. My car was boosted for over 30K miles before I had any belt problems.

You will also want a better exhaust system with all that boost. It will make a world of difference in how the car runs.

Thanks everyone for the great input.

Fredtoast, As for the intercooler, I did find their website and there is one dyno (http://www.lhtperformance.net/sc.interc.html). They say that on a B20 with vtec the intercooler added like 28 WHP and 26 ft/lb of torque. Honestly, I am not too concerned about the power increase with an intercooler setup. It would just be the added safety. But like you said, with the hondata, I would have a good margin of safety without it.

I would definitely switch to cool spark plugs and grab an extra belt. I still haven't completely committed to the supercharger. I am still keeping my options open. By the way, what gauges do you all add when you go forced induction? I was thinking air\fuel gauge and boost gauge. Anyone find any others useful? Maybe fuel pressure, but do you really need that one in the cockpit? What about just putting that one under the hood for tuning purposes?

dont waste your money on air/fuel....ge the boost gauge and maybe a Exhaust Temp....with the hondata/bigger injectors your not going to need to monitor your fuel pressure so dont get that. If your going with 3 I would get the oil pressure gauge. Oil pressure is going to play a big roll if you go Turbo. Let me try and tell you why I love my turbo. I'm putting down 254whp at 5psi, Nuff said...heres my dyno:






Stock injectors, Stock motor, vafc, fmu and good tuning......

11psi?! You are really pushing it with that much boost on a R, start with 8psi. The jackson kit starts at 5psi. Even with good tuning, a hondadata, and big injectors, that's a very big gamble. If you arent worried about peak HP numbers, the the SC will impress. The water injection isn't a bad idea. I usually see them on Ebay for a couple of hundred or so. People complain that they don't make power. Well, they're not supposed to. It's made to be a safe guard. Actually, you can make a little power with an alcohol/water mixture. I actually made 9hp more to the wheels with that mixture. If you get a jackson, the BTC is a good investment. The LHT intercooler looks nice, but now youre spending too much money. You kind of defeat the lower cost and maintenance benefits of a charger. You can always come across good deals on used jackson chargers. I've seen many for around $1500. Not a bad deal for about 40-50 more horses to the wheel.

After only browsing this post and seeing the turbo guys touting dyno #'s you shoudl give Matt at Hondata a call. He is running 11 PSI JRSC kit on his ITR and is making more power than the Turbo setup above on a stock bottom end I believe. Now Erik is only running 5 PSI but this should make for an interesting graph overlay.

Matt makes 265/175 ish