ITRCA

im plannin on changing out my pistons with je low compression pistons 9.1, apr head studs, low compression head gasket, and maybe a block guard The question i got is do i have to change my rods or anything else major? im planning on running 8 psi daily and 12 or 13 psi at the track i really dont want to tear my engine apart and have it sleeved right now. any advice?

frisc wrote:im plannin on changing out my pistons with je low compression pistons 9.1, apr head studs, low compression head gasket, and maybe a block guard The question i got is do i have to change my rods or anything else major? im planning on running 8 psi daily and 12 or 13 psi at the track i really dont want to tear my engine apart and have it sleeved right now. any advice?

Don't sleeve it. It's just asking for trouble. People make 400 WHP on stock sleeves, and 550-600 isn't unheard of.

Pistons and rods are a good idea.

-Chris F
almost 400 WHP, stock sleeves, track ITR, sometimes sees 18 PSI

Thanx. anyone else?

frisc wrote:Thanx. anyone else?

Did you have any other questions? I have a similar setup to what you're looking for. (JE 9:1, Eagle rods, up to 18 PSI)

sleeving is looking for trouble ? ya ok

for low boost no need to sleeve , but if you planning to push 20 over...do it right the first time

B18C5-T wrote:sleeving is looking for trouble ? ya ok

I don't know of many people cracking stock sleeves without something else horribly wrong (tuning etc).

I HAVE heard of people dropping sleeves, and burning oil, and other random crap with sleeved blocks. Maybe this is a byproduct of people making more power, I dunno.

Block Guard=bad idea

Sleeving for high boost=intelligence

Low boost(10psi or less)=sleeving not needed
Now on this last one^^^alot of people get screwed up. People always talk about PSI this and PSI that. Yes PSI has alot to do with it, but when you get really technical when talking boost, it's all about CFM's.

I suggest you 1st learn how to read a compressor flow chart! If you know that(honestly), then try to find one for the turbo you are planning on using. See how compatable it is with the engine/how you want it to perform. You want ungodly high peak HP, or a good linear dyno chart? Depends on what your car is first going ot be used for. Daily driver? drag racing? Road racing/auto cross? Or a combo of these somehow?

I will honestly tell you one thing to get back to your original question... If your going to want high boost and high HP, Be safe and show your block some love and get it 100% professionally sleved with a Reputable set of sleeves! Also get it CORRECTLY tuned on a dyno with a real EMS system, by someone who seriously knows how to tune your kind of setup and the EMS you will use. Done have lil' Johnny that you grew up with that has done 1 engine swap his whole life and thinks he can tune your beast on the street with an adjustable FPR and advancing your cam timing each (in. ex.) by 2 degrees. You WILL go BOOM!!!! oh and not to mention broke!

another question....how strong are my rods????? the max i will boost like i said before will be 13psi. I've read on here guys boosting 9 to 10lbs on stock internals. I've also read in other forums that higher compression makes more horsepower per lb of boost?? is this correct? If so should i just keep my internals the same maybe put some new rings, put a lower compression head gasket and some head studs?? I NEED SOME KNOWLEDGE HELP!!!!!!!!

The stock ITR rods "should/could" hold 13psi. If your going to really want to stay with the stock rods I would get them "shot peened"! If your going to go that route ytou might as well just get some good after market rods.

Now your second question...lol
Yes the higher the compression the more power you will make! BUT...Once you hit a point in a crazy ass high compression ie. domed pistons, and a good amount of boost on top of it...Something HAS GOT TO give! I am at work right now, but on my home computer I have a link I will post up for you. Its a compression calculator. I will post it up within 8 hours.

As for the Head gasket... Yes a thicker gasket will lower compression. But it also makes a larger surface area for gasket blowout! You could however get 2 new OEM gaskets (per say) and install 1, and then just pull one layer off of the 2nd gasket and add it on top of the "full" gasket. Or even 2 layers ect. Doing this you can gradually change your copmpression. As I stated above I will post the compression calculator, because on that you can change everything from OEM pistons within an engine, to different deck highth, gasket thickness, and so on. You will see in a few.

I got your back bro!

As promised above^^^^

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/comp ... mpcalc.php

Also something else you might find worth the time...

http://www.goreg.com/tech_info/psi_conv ... actors.htm

I'm one of those guys that turboed his ITR 4 years ago when everyone said it couldn't be done.

Back in those days people used to think stock sleeves could only withstand 300whp.

Well, now we know both of those myths are just that..myths.

I'll be doing a stock block/forged internals build this winter also. I'm on a quest for more power, and the motor is starting to show its 40K plus miles boosted (most of it untuned).

Anyhoo, I think you'll be fine with your plan, but forged rods are pretty inexpensive so it might be worth considering not using your stock rods, I'd sell them to some ricer.

Good luck with it, I'll post updates on my project here as well. Goal is 400-450whp on stock sleeves.

knowledge thanks for those links.

No problem frisc.

thats why we are here to help one another!

Jan Niemi wrote:I'm one of those guys that turboed his ITR 4 years ago when everyone said it couldn't be done.

Back in those days people used to think stock sleeves could only withstand 300whp.

Well, now we know both of those myths are just that..myths.

I'll be doing a stock block/forged internals build this winter also. I'm on a quest for more power, and the motor is starting to show its 40K plus miles boosted (most of it untuned).

Anyhoo, I think you'll be fine with your plan, but forged rods are pretty inexpensive so it might be worth considering not using your stock rods, I'd sell them to some ricer.

Good luck with it, I'll post updates on my project here as well. Goal is 400-450whp on stock sleeves.

what was your setup with the stock internals? and how much did you boost?

frisc wrote:

Jan Niemi wrote:I'm one of those guys that turboed his ITR 4 years ago when everyone said it couldn't be done.

Back in those days people used to think stock sleeves could only withstand 300whp.

Well, now we know both of those myths are just that..myths.

I'll be doing a stock block/forged internals build this winter also. I'm on a quest for more power, and the motor is starting to show its 40K plus miles boosted (most of it untuned).

Anyhoo, I think you'll be fine with your plan, but forged rods are pretty inexpensive so it might be worth considering not using your stock rods, I'd sell them to some ricer.

Good luck with it, I'll post updates on my project here as well. Goal is 400-450whp on stock sleeves.

what was your setup with the stock internals? and how much did you boost?

click the link to my personal site for details, but basically 10Psig boost for 4 years, various bullshit tuning devices for the first 3 yrs, Hondata tuned for the last year.

Stock sleeves can hold 550whp if TUNED CORRECTLY.

Sleeving is not needed IMO if you have forged internals and arent going over 20psi. if you have the money, its great for reliability and safety.

Block guards, i hate, they casue more trouble than they are worth, and if a cylinder is gonna crack or walk, no $50 block guard is going to save it.

We just did a BONE STOCK itr with a bolt on Drag Turbo kit. 6psi it made 221whp. its a fun little car, and hes buying rods and pistons so we can shoot for 15psi and 350whpish.

We tuned a car locally (lsvtec with rods and pistons, STOCK SLEEVES) with Nuekin manifold and SC 61 that made 515whp on race gas. its still holding up about 2 months later. He made 440whp on pump gas, once again stock sleeves.

Back to your first question. yes change out your rods. if you are going through the trouble of changing the pistons, put rods in it. they are $300 for Eagles BNIB. they are much cheaper than pistons.

I would never run a thicker headgasket.

Run headstuds.

I would not go 9:1, i would do 9.5-10:1. youll make more power and youll still be safe.

my .02

Vteckidd wrote:Stock sleeves can hold 550whp if TUNED CORRECTLY.

Sleeving is not needed IMO if you have forged internals and arent going over 20psi. if you have the money, its great for reliability and safety.

Block guards, i hate, they casue more trouble than they are worth, and if a cylinder is gonna crack or walk, no $50 block guard is going to save it.

We just did a BONE STOCK itr with a bolt on Drag Turbo kit. 6psi it made 221whp. its a fun little car, and hes buying rods and pistons so we can shoot for 15psi and 350whpish.

We tuned a car locally (lsvtec with rods and pistons, STOCK SLEEVES) with Nuekin manifold and SC 61 that made 515whp on race gas. its still holding up about 2 months later. He made 440whp on pump gas, once again stock sleeves.

Back to your first question. yes change out your rods. if you are going through the trouble of changing the pistons, put rods in it. they are $300 for Eagles BNIB. they are much cheaper than pistons.

I would never run a thicker headgasket.

Run headstuds.

I would not go 9:1, i would do 9.5-10:1. youll make more power and youll still be safe.

my .02

I think I just might change out the rods 2 like u said and I will prolly get some 10:1 pistons cause i've been reading in other fourms and they do make more power with less psi and im not going to boost crazy.

I already talked to the guy whos gonna be tunning it and we made a deal he puts in the whole hondata system and tunes it for $1,500 i think its far.

As for my turbo a t3/t67 on 12lbs with some fine tunning should put me around 350hp+

But thanks for your .02 anylittle bit helps.

hes gonna install hondata and tune it for $1500???????

or build the motor, and install hondata and tune it for $1500?


if hes just doing hondata and tuning good god thats alot of money.

if hes buildign the motor thats about right

Vteckidd wrote:hes gonna install hondata and tune it for $1500???????

or build the motor, and install hondata and tune it for $1500?


if hes just doing hondata and tuning good god thats alot of money.

if hes buildign the motor thats about right

The guy ownes a shop and im going to buy the hondata from him prolly for $900 then hes going to install $100 and hes going to tune it $500. Thats $1500. Im going to do all the engine work just to save some $$$.

frisc wrote:

Vteckidd wrote:hes gonna install hondata and tune it for $1500???????

or build the motor, and install hondata and tune it for $1500?


if hes just doing hondata and tuning good god thats alot of money.

if hes buildign the motor thats about right

The guy ownes a shop and im going to buy the hondata from him prolly for $900 then hes going to install $100 and hes going to tune it $500. Thats $1500. Im going to do all the engine work just to save some $$$.

Assuming you have a INTEGRA TYPE R DC2 chassis, $900 is RIDICULOUS considering S200 with boost option is $290+165=$455 (thats retail pricing).

A mild motor like that should only take 2.5-3 hours at the most. Considering most places charge $150/hour to tune, its around $450. if he is charging less than $150 an hour, find out how long hes going to take to tune. unless he just charges a flat rate for tuning, as some shops do. alot charge a flat fee of $400-500 and tune it until they are done, it takes an hour, you got ripped, it takes 10 hours, you get a good deal.

Hondata should cost no more than $550-600 with ti FULLY LOADED. I reccomend Uberdata or Crome, its much cheaper and has the same features. use it on all our turbo cars. i can send you a basemap as well if you need it, all you need is OBD1 and a chipped ECU.

The only thing from hondata that costs $900 is KPRO , so unless you have an RSX, i have a hard time beleiveing that price tag.

not trying to flame your "tuner" just trying to make sure you get the most for your money

Vteckidd wrote:

frisc wrote:

Vteckidd wrote:hes gonna install hondata and tune it for $1500???????

or build the motor, and install hondata and tune it for $1500?


if hes just doing hondata and tuning good god thats alot of money.

if hes buildign the motor thats about right

The guy ownes a shop and im going to buy the hondata from him prolly for $900 then hes going to install $100 and hes going to tune it $500. Thats $1500. Im going to do all the engine work just to save some $$$.

Assuming you have a INTEGRA TYPE R DC2 chassis, $900 is RIDICULOUS considering S200 with boost option is $290+165=$455 (thats retail pricing).

A mild motor like that should only take 2.5-3 hours at the most. Considering most places charge $150/hour to tune, its around $450. if he is charging less than $150 an hour, find out how long hes going to take to tune. unless he just charges a flat rate for tuning, as some shops do. alot charge a flat fee of $400-500 and tune it until they are done, it takes an hour, you got ripped, it takes 10 hours, you get a good deal.

Hondata should cost no more than $550-600 with ti FULLY LOADED. I reccomend Uberdata or Crome, its much cheaper and has the same features. use it on all our turbo cars. i can send you a basemap as well if you need it, all you need is OBD1 and a chipped ECU.

The only thing from hondata that costs $900 is KPRO , so unless you have an RSX, i have a hard time beleiveing that price tag.

not trying to flame your "tuner" just trying to make sure you get the most for your money

i have a 99 civic SI with a 97 jdm type r motor. I tired uberdata berfore when i had my b16 in and it sucked ass. It didnt want to idle and rev and it ran like shit. thats why i started going away from it. I'm pretty sure it wasnt my computer because i gave it to my friend to use and his car ran fine.

If you have a good basemap i can give it a try i still have my chipped p28 and the obd1 conversion harness. How easy is tunning uberdata and what kind of power r u making with it?

We have made 515whp on a LSVTEC SC61 that had rods and pistons (stock sleeves) and no headwork.

search my name on HT the thread is in there.