ITRCA

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IIRC the words of a wise person.... K is the new g3hy. I tend to lean that way also.

<--- Sticking to the B18C5 the caR came with, but that does not mean it has to be stock

Why do you think going to a K Series motor is an upgrade?

But you understand it's not just toss in a motor and be done, From what I have read and heard it's actually a lot of money from start to finish.

Hey, it's your's! and do as you please

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Most people you see do this on a ITR are people with show cars who just have money to waste on cars that will never be on the road. I say stick with the B18C5.

sb85 wrote:Hi, one of my friend is willing to sell me his K out of an 06 Civic Si for about 2g. I'm thinking of building a k20/24 w/ a tsx, accord or crv block. I hear a lot of builds done with a k20a2 and k24 block but not with a k20z3. Is it because the k20z3 are new and less accessible in comparison with the k20a2? Can someone confirm this or is there another reason.

And if I just swap the k20z3 bone stock, will it be faster than my jdm itr b18c motor? I know the K-motors are more responsive and I have to get Hondata but is this project worth it?

Should I go ahead with this build?

you know I thought about it too not to long ago, but then I figured that totally different K engine design will be a pain in the ass, cuz it will sit differently and will require shit lot of customization especially if you will want to upgrade it. Instead I'd just bore up b18c5 to 2.0 and it will be basically the same thing as K engine plus you can still use all the B series engine upgrades (there's alot) but its totally up to you depending on your budget and goal.

That would be far from an upgrade

a friend at work with an EP3 Type-R, i took him out in my Integra weeks ago, he absolutely LOVED the way VTEC worked in my B-series


his words were along the lines of. "VTEC is so much more aggressive, i want it like this."


and he has a 200bhp K-series. seriously, its more how the engine does it than the power it makes IMO to make a car fun

tartje wrote:a friend at work with an EP3 Type-R, i took him out in my Integra weeks ago, he absolutely LOVED the way VTEC worked in my B-series


his words were along the lines of. "VTEC is so much more aggressive, i want it like this."


and he has a 200bhp K-series. seriously, its more how the engine does it than the power it makes IMO to make a car fun

Thats very true. Cars with much more horsepower don't feel anywhere near as good as well set up NA engine like ours.......such as any turbo honda.....

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Fret1255 wrote:Most people you see do this on a ITR are people with show cars who just have money to waste on cars that will never be on the road. I say stick with the B18C5.

That's a pretty ignorant statement to say.

tartje wrote:a friend at work with an EP3 Type-R, i took him out in my Integra weeks ago, he absolutely LOVED the way VTEC worked in my B-series

his words were along the lines of. "VTEC is so much more aggressive, i want it like this."

Technically speaking, the smoother your VTEC crosses over, the better your tune. A jerked VTEC engagement is not always a good thing, and could be a sign for need of a retune.

SerGTR wrote: you know I thought about it too not to long ago, but then I figured that totally different K engine design will be a pain in the ass, cuz it will sit differently and will require shit lot of customization

Matter which way you look at it from the customization point of view, there is no welding involved FYI.

SerGTR wrote: Instead I'd just bore up b18c5 to 2.0 and it will be basically the same thing as K engine plus you can still use all the B series engine upgrades (there's alot) but its totally up to you depending on your budget and goal.

Your sleeved B series would not be the same as a K.

1) First off, the K20 comes native with 2.0L of displacement. What does this mean? It is all OEM. And with OEM comes with reliability. No need to sleeve a K block to get to a 2L like you would with a B18C5.

2) K series includes the latest technology.
a) Coil Packs - Individual Spark Tuning - Stronger more precise Spark (technically).
b) Timing Chain - Lasts longer.
c) VTC - How does the sound of on the fly cam gear timing sound?
d) Stock Type S heads flow close to 300 CFM - compare that to ITR's 270.
e) Roller Rockers - Less friction parasitic loss.
f) Block Girlde - Integrated into the block, much stronger.
g) 6 Speed - Self explanatory

sb85 wrote:Hi, one of my friend is willing to sell me his K out of an 06 Civic Si for about 2g. I'm thinking of building a k20/24 w/ a tsx, accord or crv block. I hear a lot of builds done with a k20a2 and k24 block but not with a k20z3. Is it because the k20z3 are new and less accessible in comparison with the k20a2? Can someone confirm this or is there another reason.

Not many people swap in K20Z3's because you have to change a lot of things on them to make it work.

1) The tranny will not with a K swap. The shifter mechanism is different.

2) It has a drive by wire throttle body. You'll need to get a Type S throttle body.

3) You can't use their wire harness. You will need to use a Type S engine harness because you're going to be removing the throttle body. Also because, there are no after market ECUs yet which will work for the K20Z3 wire harness. And you can't use the stock ECU because of the integrated dash control.

4) You will need to change a lot of miscellaneous engine sensors to get it to work with the Type S wire harness.

sb85 wrote: And if I just swap the k20z3 bone stock, will it be faster than my jdm itr b18c motor?

If the only reason you are wanting to do the swap is based purly on making your car "faster" and to which you even don't know the answer to and have to question then this swap is defintly not for you.

sb85 wrote: I have to get Hondata ....

You can use a JDM K20A (Type R) ECU since it does not have an immobilizer.

sb85 wrote: ...but is this project worth it?

Have you looked at the price figures for the support mods that you will need for this swap? You will need new mounts, shift linkage, shifter, shifter adapter, clutch lines, fuel lines, fpr, fuel rail, ecu, axles, and etc.. Just the mounts and ECU alone will run you over a grand.

sb85 wrote: Should I go ahead with this build?

I hope you came to a conclusion with the above hints that I gave you.


As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I knew it would skew off topic and become a K vs B debate. If you would of asked me to which side I pledged to a year ago, I would of instantly said B. But now, it's not the same. Lets not be so ignorant here people. The K series is Honda's new technology, their new flagship motor series. Denying it at least some respect is pure ignorance.

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neo_ wrote:

tartje wrote:a friend at work with an EP3 Type-R, i took him out in my Integra weeks ago, he absolutely LOVED the way VTEC worked in my B-series

his words were along the lines of. "VTEC is so much more aggressive, i want it like this."

Technically speaking, the smoother your VTEC crosses over, the better your tune. A jerked VTEC engagement is not always a good thing, and could be a sign for need of a retune.

no, its tuned perfectly. i have cams installed and its as smooth as possible, but the B-series VTEC works differently from a K-series, and the VTEC is nowhere near as noticable on a K.


"it gets so much louder when it crosses over, mine sounds gay in comparison now"

plus, the crossover may be smooth, but the rate of acceleration is so different it feels really aggressive

tartje wrote:

neo_ wrote:

tartje wrote:a friend at work with an EP3 Type-R, i took him out in my Integra weeks ago, he absolutely LOVED the way VTEC worked in my B-series

his words were along the lines of. "VTEC is so much more aggressive, i want it like this."

Technically speaking, the smoother your VTEC crosses over, the better your tune. A jerked VTEC engagement is not always a good thing, and could be a sign for need of a retune.

no, its tuned perfectly. i have cams installed and its as smooth as possible, but the B-series VTEC works differently from a K-series, and the VTEC is nowhere near as noticable on a K.


"it gets so much louder when it crosses over, mine sounds gay in comparison now"

plus, the crossover may be smooth, but the rate of acceleration is so different it feels really aggressive

Well. Any car with stock cams will compared to a car with aftermarket cams will have a more aggressive VTEC. Reason being is the obvious larger VTEC lobe.

How does K series VTEC work different from a B series?

Both have a VTEC Solenoid.
Both have 3 Lobes per cam cylinder. With the center one being the VTEC lobe.
Both have a rocker system that locks the rocker to the middle VTEC lobe upon VTEC activation.

Only difference is, the K Series has VTC which gives you a more smoother power band.

If it is a real ITR that you have why not keep its factory motor intact and or build it, i'm sure you will save money in the long run building your b18c5 then putting a k motor in your car. sure you get the 6-speed and you will be running a bit more displacement, but your car was engineered by those crazy people in japan and they decided to put the b18c5 in there for a reason, it makes the car what it is. another thing is that you can make the car as fast as you want (if your thought is, ill try and race someone on the street) you still have to be able to stop and turn, to handle well at the track is key.

wow im sorry i am talking to much. my 2 cents aside i would keep the b-series.
-Matt

neo_ wrote: Only difference is, the K Series has VTC which gives you a more smoother power band.

which is how it works differently and makes a smoother band making VTEC seem less aggressive than in my B-series

tartje wrote:

neo_ wrote: Only difference is, the K Series has VTC which gives you a more smoother power band.

which is how it works differently and makes a smoother band making VTEC seem less aggressive than in my B-series

It is a myth that VTEC works differently in a K then a B series. VTEC works the same exact way. VTC is dynamic on the fly cam timing. It has nothing to do with the VTEC system, per say. Rather then having a set advanced or retarded adjustment. The cam gears adjust on the fly to get the most of the low, mid, and top power bands.