HOW MUCH!!!

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen (and perhaps children of all ages)

I have a request I hope you can help me with. For many, many years I have been smitten with the idea of getting a collectible car of Japanese origins. Presently, I believe I am able to do so (but not absolutely certain - this is where my request for help comes in). After doing some research, it appears the best of the breed is the 1997 Acura Integra Type R. Toyotas, Nissans and Mazdas are wonderful, but due to being turboed or overly-complicated in their designs, such devices may not standup that well in the future (more complicated, more prone to breaking down). Moreover, it is hard to be purer in intent than a factory built race car (but it is possible, of course Mr. Supra Turbo, RX-7 Turbo and 300ZX and others to be faster). Further reading (especially of this site) also indicates that it (realistically) should have the following:

1) Mileage of less than 60,000 kilometers ( around 38,000 miles).
2) It is to be in showroom condition inside and out (allowing only for minor dents and chips).
3) Full dealer service.
4) Have a badge indicating its number.
5) All original equipment (accept timing belt and other important service).
6) Dealer installed A/C and perhaps mud flaps and other interesting items.
7) Fewer owners the better.
ABSOLUTELY NO MODIFICATIONS.

To me, this would be MINTY FRESH

The first question is:
1) Does this description actually describe the pinnacle example of the Acura Integra Type R? Or perhaps another year is better?
2) How much would such an animal cost??? I have looked at various posts and have a flavour for the market, but the prices are cited by the people selling them. I would like a more objective opinion.

I could dream about it having no mileage and absolutely no marks, but such a creature would not have been driven, and might have mechanical problems due lack of service. Mechanical things, even when not used, do require service - I learned that the hard way.

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Mr. Minty Fresh

[98ITR747]

You're asking for a lot especially when it comes to the mileage. There are a couple of cars from 97 with low mileage like that tops. Most owners wouldn't sell.
Personally I know of 1 or 2 cars like that. There are still only very few that we know about if you were include all years. Doespike could give you a better idea since he runs a registry. I think in 10 - 15 years ITR's are going to be worth A LOT regardless of mileage or what year they were produced IF they are OEM and un-modified or restored to that condition. Right now, the car attracts serious drivers that are going to track them and not that many collectors at the moment. They also attract a younger audience right now because they are affordable. The cars are getting stolen, smashed up, and modded at a very rapid rate. There are a ton of bargains around right now. It's a great time to Buy and Hold.
Take a look at this. http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... 68498782/1

Here's a 98 worth investigating... the things that bother me about it though are his Black Pearl comments. The NOS sticker (has he sprayed on it?). Painted lip and clear corners would need to be changed out back to stock. Decals removed. New floor mats and lose the seat belt covers in the back. Simple enough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Acura-In ... sQ5fTrucks

More comments here..
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2657417

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello Sir

Thank you for the considered answer. Yes, I know I am asking being very picky. And I expect to pay for it. I really believe that this is the ideal time to pick up a DC2 ITR. My hope is to buy the best I can afford. I know of one in Alberta that is very low mileage (below 38K Miles) and is almost perfect. It is a 1997. I am hung up, I guess, on this year because it is the first year and the rarest. While there were approximately 318-320 1997 ITRs in America, there were only around 180 Canadian ITRs. Many sources confirm that North America (USA and Canada combined) only had 500 copies of this vehicle. To me, it would be absolutely brilliant to have one of those. I did see the ad on ebay for the 1998 ITR. It looks great, but it is the wrong year. Given the brief I gave about what I am looking for (which is very close to the car in Alberta) would 25000 CDN be a reasonable amount? According to what I know, its title is clean from Carfax (no accident or theft). And if the owner of that very vehicle is reading this ad . . . well, perhaps you should cloes your eyes while I am doing my homework.

Thank you

Mr. MINTY FRESH

[carcollector2]

Hello, I may have what you seek. Please email me at glenn@rushingrivercamp.com for details. Thanks...

[98ITR747]

To OP, well look at that! A stroke of luck maybe!
Glenn, I see this is your first post here. Would you be so kind as to PM Doespike with your badge #?
Thanks and good luck!

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello Carcollector2

Thank you for the invite. At this moment, I hesitate to contact anybody who is actually selling the car I am looking to purchase. The reason, as alluded to before, is that I want objective opinions. I don't mind spending what I have to, however, I am not sure a person actually selling a vehicle is the most objective source of information. This is not to diminish their undestanding of such a vehicle, it is just that I want a wider scope of opinions. I have been looking at this site for awhile, and from what I have gathered the vehicle I am looking at is probably worth between 18,000 to 25,000 American Dollars. This however is what was posted. I am not sure what the final prices were. So, before I actually look at a vehicle, and become a smitten fool that will pay the world for such a car, I need to stand back and hear from others.

Once more, to this end, I would greatly appreciate hard advice from others who have recently purchased what I have described, or due to their knowledge in the area, would theoretically offer on such a vehicle. After all, it is communities like this that have the best understanding of this special automobile.

Thank you

MINTY FRESH

[98ITR747]

Well in my opinion a car that matches the one you described is worth about 20 to 25k USD.. closer to 25k.
I'm partial to the recessed headlights myself and was looking for a 97 as well. Then I found my car and it was just too good of a bargain to pass on.
PS when you buy make sure you post pics please.

[MINTY FRESH]

Helllo 98ITR747

Thank you for your reply. At least I have an idea. Does anybody else have anythoughts on this matter? I was reading a recent dialogue between Dave_B and somebody asking about purchasing a 97R with low miles. The person was saying that they thought that they could obtain such a vehicle for 15000 dollars. Was this person just hoping or is regionality a strong factor?

And yes, certainly when a buy this vehcile I will post pictures!!!

MINTY FRESH

[98ITR747]

15k would be stealing it.

[nannerb46]

Minty,
Without sounding like a smart ass, the information you seek is located between your own ears. I sell cars for a living, and know that what a car is worth, is what someone is willing to pay for it. Considering the vehicle you are looking for, paying a premium should not be an issue. The discussion you are having sounds like someone looking to purchase a new car, and not wanting to pay too much. The issues you should be considering while looking at this car, is history, service, abuse or lack there of. If price is your driving factor, you may end up not obtaining the car you desire. If you have the finacial ability to aquire one, the rest of the guys are probably right, $20-$25,000 range American. Canadian, I would expect an additional $10,000 for one this clean. Sometimes people just need conformation on there own thoughts, and I would confirm that you would not have overspent at $25,000 on a low mileage '97.

[Dave_B]

Helllo 98ITR747

Thank you for your reply. At least I have an idea. Does anybody else have anythoughts on this matter? I was reading a recent dialogue between Dave_B and somebody asking about purchasing a 97R with low miles. The person was saying that they thought that they could obtain such a vehicle for 15000 dollars. Was this person just hoping or is regionality a strong factor?

And yes, certainly when a buy this vehcile I will post pictures!!!

MINTY FRESH

Not sure which thread that was, please feel free to post it here.

However, for a low mileage, clean titled, original owner 97 ITR that is BONE STOCK, expect 20k plus.

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello Gentlemen

To Dave_B, the post you were involved in is attached below. It is in the "Cars for sale" section, you were discussing the price of a 97R with a person who was looking for one the Boston area. Your last post was on Septebmer 30, 2009.

http://www.itrca.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 26&start=0

As for nannerb46, your frank reply is appreciated and has given me food for thought. And taken together with the other responders, it appears the price of the car would be around 25,000 CDN (the exchange rate is favorable at the moment).

Thank you

MINTY FRESH

[nessb18c5]

When I moved with my parents to "Radiator Springs" there was no imports around. They keep calling my R a mustang! One day I was at Walmart and spotted an old guy around his late 50 scounting my car I ready to drop him if he tried anything. He saw me and said is the type R? I was very suprise he said that. A friend of his who lives in "Lost Land" has a white one with only 9k on it. He bought it new in 97 and rarely drives it, he said that one day its going to be a collectors car. He said to me that the only thing he could tell is that it had a 10k tachometer. He was surprise to even find one in the area. So there is one 97 that i've heard of with low miles own by an older gentlemen and he's sure not selling it.

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello

Thank you for the information. That is the problem . . . the people who have them know they are special and are likely to keep them. One does't lavish such attention on something that is merely a mode of transportation. For this reason, I am making the necessary fiscal provisions for when I finally come across such a vehicle.

However, where I leave, it is currently 1.0 degrees Celsius outside and I don't think I will see too many MINTY FRESH 97Rs being driven around. And if I do, they probably aren't MINTY FRESH.

Again, thanks for your memory.

MINTY FRESH

[98ITR747]

Minty Fresh, your car has arrived.
http://www.itrca.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 73#p101573

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello 98 ITR747

Thanks for the link.

That is an amazing car and well worth the price.

Presently, the only reasons I am not contacting the seller are:

1) While importing an American Car into Canada is not too difficult, the other costs would add about 4000 - 5000 dollars. Nevertheless, based on my research (and the opinions of those who have replied to my question) this is a very good price for what you get. Compared to, lets say a 2010 Porsche Cayman, 30 - 35K CDN is a bargain.

2) Though 1) is true, my present secular quest ( I would us the Grail reference but I am not Roman Catholic) is to find the rarest North American rendition of the 1997 Type R. Based on accepted research, there are/were 318 US type Rs brought into US in 1997, however, according to some Canadian Car Magazines I have recently come across since starting this posting, there were only 160 1997 Acura Integra Type Rs imported into Canada for sale in that year. Based on this, there were not 500 1997 North American Type Rs but only 478. To me, it would be more fun (and more frustrating of course) to find 1 of the 160 in great condition.

3) Even if I was not confounded by 2) the current vehicle for consideration is in phenomenal shape. It has less than 1K miles. That is unbelievable. And as one of the posts on that site mentioned, the mileage and condition are so . . . incredible that the car has become . . . well, almost an item too desirable to drive. While I love the idea of low kilometers (miles), this vehicle is almost too perfect. As I described in the start of this thread I would like a car with around 3000 mileages per year (12 x 3000 = 36,000 miles). Though I appreciate a well kept, and MINTY vehicle, this vehicle is almost TOO MINTY (if that is possible). I want one that I can drive and not feel guilty about. In the past I came across an article about a person with a 1970 Superbird with around 1500 miles on it. The owner was very happy to have it, yet, the owner was treating this iconic muscle car like a valuable oil painting, than an actual vehicle. Perhaps, it my budget was greater I would purchase this vehicle as well.

I truly hope that it is appreciated for what it is.

Again, thanks for the lead.

MINTY FRESH

[Doespike]

Based on accepted research, there are/were 318 US type Rs brought into US in 1997, however, according to some Canadian Car Magazines I have recently come across since starting this posting, there were only 160 1997 Acura Integra Type Rs imported into Canada for sale in that year. Based on this, there were not 500 1997 North American Type Rs but only 478. To me, it would be more fun (and more frustrating of course) to find 1 of the 160 in great condition.

Not to nitpick, but since you seem really into the research end of this I figure you'd like to know, there were 320 USDM ITRs for the 1997 model year. This is based on an in-depth VIN research project conducted a few years ago by a number of enthusiasts. Most sources that quote the 318 units use a phrase like "318 sold in the US for 1997." I attribute the extra 2 being the 2 Honda was known to kept in their training centers. One of those was sold a few years ago, the other was sold this spring to the fellow listing it right now in the above link.

I too have only come across information saying 160 units sold in Canada. The curious part is that the armrest badge # sequence goes up to and including #512. The VINs associated with #505-512 are also the last VINs to be issued for ITRs in the 1997 model run. So with 320+160= 480...the question rises do an additional 32 '97 ITR really exist (512-480) or were 32 badges that were never used from the factory. We are very certain there are no more USDM ITRs more than the 320. So it's possible there were an additional 32 sent to Canada for a total of 192. Hopefully someday we will know better.

In keeping my ITR Registry, it is curious that I have not encountered any badge #s between 482-504. Could these be missing badges or the last extra batch of Canadian ITRs?

Honestly, yes, a clean, original CDM '97 R will be the rarest of them all. They do pop up. I remember one just a year or so ago with only 20-25k kms coming up for sale. Given the rarity you may just have to play the waiting game...they will turn up.

Good luck in your search and feel free to ask more questions. More info on the Registry project can be found here..
http://www.itrca.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10138

Does MINTY FRESH have a real name? We are a pretty tight knit car community, online and in person....just curious as to the person looking for one of our finest ITRs.

[MINTY FRESH]

Hello Doespike

That is a very indepth answer. Thank you. When the 97s first came out there was an Canadian artical stating that Acura was planning to bring out 190 examples. Months later, another Canadian magazine which was testing a 1997 Contour SVT against a 1997 Type R said that only 160 were coming over.

As for me, my name is Andrew. Pleased to meet you. Actually, I have been interesting in these cars for many, many years. Amongst a host of domestic items, my first car love was a 1978 280Z datsun (5 speed). At the same time, I also sampled a 1989 Suzuki Swift GTi. After that there came many others, but as people say, you don't forget your first love. Therefore, over the past couple of years I have been looking for something to fill the void. While I do appreciate German metal, for example the Porsche Cayman and older 993s, there always seemed something overdone about them. Moreover, I still have a 1985 VF1000F Honda Interceptor. Therefore, it just makes sense that I should purchase a Honda, and the best Honda I can think of is . . .

Yes one day it will be mine. Oh yes it will.

[the_integra_man]

You should buy the one in the FS section. 1997 with the lowest miles I've ever seen. Doesn't get any more original than that!