Can the R be made to handle better without lowering it?

PY 01-0972 · Post by **PY 01-0972** » February 12th, 2004, 7:34 pm

I asked before about making it flatter and bigger sway bars was the consenses. would a high dollar coil over make a big difference in the handling? This is of course with nice tires like the re 010's My big thing is
I dont want to take a step back in the great handling I now have. I just
am addicted to having a car that handles great and since I am now starting
to actually drive the car near the limit,I would like to make it even better
if its possible. thanks again!

grrlie · Post by **grrlie** » February 12th, 2004, 10:52 pm

I blew the stock shocks within the first 15K of having the car- it just caused me to do what I was planning to do anyway earlier than planned- replace them with Koni double-adjustables.
I put 450 fr/600 rear Eibach springs.
Run SSR competition (17) wheels, with Toyos (same as Speed World Challenge Rs).
Those are the only things I've done period- and I'm happy with that as far as daily driving set-up/ the adjustability makes for good autocross too.
I don't know what others will say- but personally I prefer my set up now- and I believe the most important first "upgrade" to make is on suspension, everything else can wait -suspension is key.
Its not cheap- but worth every penny!!

PY 01-0972 · Post by **PY 01-0972** » February 13th, 2004, 12:43 am

did that mod require a camber kit?

Bbasso · Post by **Bbasso** » February 13th, 2004, 9:47 am

Not to sound like ...

Have you done any HPDEs in the car the way it is now?

Chris N · Post by **Chris N** » February 13th, 2004, 1:05 pm

Just a note - those tires they run in SVWC are CRAP.

They are the spec tire, they have no choice and are nothing special.

There are many other non-R compound 'street' tires that would be better suited for your car.

Anyways.

Lower center of gravity = better handling.

It's hard to put on stiffer springs and dampers without lowering the car, what would be the point? Ride height, camber, toe, sway bars, spring rate, motion ratio, wheel rate, etc... they all go hand in hand. Leave the ride height at stock affects all other variables.

grrlie · Post by **grrlie** » February 13th, 2004, 6:22 pm

To answer the questions regarding my 1st post.
No camber kit required.

I personally really like the Toyos- they aren't the only tires I've run by any means! The reference to SVWC cars was in regards to the wheel/tire size set up I chose. I honestly like them- I'm not saying theres nothing better out there. Different people are going to have different preferences based on their wheel size, climate, and personal taste. My logic too is that if you can race at their level with that combination- how can that be bad for daily driving. When running an event though I usually use Hoosiers.

I have another car for track events- the R will see no track time until its paid off and is caged. I run a '95 Honda Civic EX. The set up I chose for the R was based off of the personal driving/setting up experience from that car. The springs that I run 450/600 were originally on that car (it was used for drving schools/track events for 2 years before going to higher spring rates and custom shocks to handle those higher spring rates) The spring rates I use will work fine for "off the shelf" Konis, which for the guy that orginally posted is applicable. (as if you are questioning the worth of coil-overs for handling you aren't in need of custom valving yet- or at least will have a hard time telling them what you want)

And yes I am aware of the fact that my car is "lower" I mentioned my set up based on the fact that he brought up coil-overs...

I don't expect anyone to believe what I'm saying or follow my lead. My decisions were based on my experience and my husbands (Lyonel Kent) from building his car from daily driver, to street-prepared autocross car, to the ECHC championship winning race car that it is today. It may not be what you guys think is the best- but for my driving style and budget I am quite pleased and would recommend it for daily driving- hence my post.

George Knighton · Post by **George Knighton** » February 13th, 2004, 6:56 pm

grrlie wrote:I don't expect anyone to believe what I'm saying....

LOL... I believe you.

grrlie · Post by **grrlie** » February 14th, 2004, 2:52 pm

[quote="Chris N"]
There are many other non-R compound 'street' tires that would be better suited for your car.
quote]

Just a comment I forgot to make- as I'm not sure by your wording suggesting "other non-R compound 'street' tires" but the Toyo Proxes T1-S are a Z rated street tire not an R compound.
Either way I'm sure I still like them and you don't- but they are a Z not R tire (just clarifying as I'm not sure why you mentioned specifically a non-R compound when suggesting I run something else, when I'm not running an R compound in the first place)

In hindsight I think I should've clarified on my original post- to specify I meant what they were running when they were campaigning the type Rs- now when the RSXs are being campaigned the series runs the Ra-1 which I assume is what you thought I meant, but I was talking SVWC pre-RSX- so different tire.

ThisFlyGuy · Post by **ThisFlyGuy** » February 17th, 2004, 4:18 am

you can add sway bars and struts on your front and rear. you can also add a rollcage or underbody braces.......

.RJ · Post by **.RJ** » February 17th, 2004, 9:13 am

ThisFlyGuy wrote:you can add sway bars and struts on your front and rear. you can also add a rollcage or underbody braces.......

You can add whatever you want. But if you dont think about how it all works together and blindly add crap, the car will be worse off.

If you want to keep the stock ride height and handle better, then better tires (Falken Azenis, Kuhmo Ecsta MX, BFG KD, etc) and shocks (Koni, IMO) are a good upgrade.

grrlie · Post by **grrlie** » February 17th, 2004, 1:03 pm

.RJ wrote:
ThisFlyGuy wrote:you can add sway bars and struts on your front and rear. you can also add a rollcage or underbody braces.......

You can add whatever you want. But if you dont think about how it all works together and blindly add crap, the car will be worse off.
quote]

Exactly! Which is why I had said start with suspension.
Everyone keeps raving about adding swaybars- while obviously several folks didn't like my set up (probably mostly due to my choice of wheel/tire for daily driving- which does differ from my track and auto-X combo)- I have a problem with the "lets add lots of big swaybars etc" as "the solution" most people seem to believe in these ITR forums (not just this thread).
IMO as well, if you are wanting to improve how the car handles you need to deal with suspension (I too obviously recomend the Konis). If you don't get how suspension and car set-up in general works- then you really need to learn before you start bolting a bunch of stuff onto the car.
Suspension is to a car what a foundation is to a house.

PY 01-0972 · Post by **PY 01-0972** » February 19th, 2004, 9:32 pm

thanks for all the replies!

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » February 20th, 2004, 9:46 am

grrlie

Nice to see a girl out here! Thanks for your input...**thumbs up**

98cwitr · Post by **98cwitr** » February 22nd, 2004, 4:20 am

coilovers set at stock height

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » February 22nd, 2004, 10:21 pm

Koni DA revalves on stock springs work for me. Coilovers need to much attention to be worth the advantage if you don't have a full time mechanic and a shelf full of springs!

jr_istheman · Post by **jr_istheman** » March 5th, 2004, 3:49 am

I currently run the Mugen Lowdowns with the mugen 26mm rear sway bar. personally, I love this setup for the daily driving/track use that I do. they're dapening adjustable and only lowers your car of 0.75! very unnoticable drop, almost like stock. hope this helps.

Dr Pooface · Post by **Dr Pooface** » March 5th, 2004, 10:45 am

bbqman wrote:Coilovers need to much attention to be worth the advantage if you don't have a full time mechanic and a shelf full of springs!

I think the ability to cornerweight a car is worth the purchase of coilovers.

nanertyper · Post by **nanertyper** » March 5th, 2004, 2:23 pm

Bilstein shocks with stock springs will make the ride more stiff.

mstewar · Post by **mstewar** » March 8th, 2004, 4:22 pm

grrlie wrote:I personally really like the Toyos- they aren't the only tires I've run by any means! The reference to SVWC cars was in regards to the wheel/tire size set up I chose. I honestly like them- I'm not saying theres nothing better out there. Different people are going to have different preferences based on their wheel size, climate, and personal taste. My logic too is that if you can race at their level with that combination- how can that be bad for daily driving. When running an event though I usually use Hoosiers.

different people do indeed have different tastes in tires.. but the reasoning that they can all race on tires makes them good street tires is kinda odd to me.. besides, I'm sure they'd rather be using something else as well, but a series sponsor is a series sponsor..

on a personal level, i can't speculate on their quality to my limited experience with them..

i do agree about the big sway bars comment.. a lot of people seem to jump to that right away without thinking about how other portions of the suspension will interact.. it's a system, not a bunch of individual pieces..