what should be next.
what should be next.
I have an 01 R with 30k miles on it. i/h/e, high flow cat, plug wires, pullies, VAFC. and i wanna continue adding mods, although i am doing research on redoing the valvetrain. But for the time being, would the victor X intake manifold and throttle body be a nice investment. Does anyone have any numbers on those?
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Erik B
- Senior ITRCA Member
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: September 18th, 2002, 12:29 am
- Location: Cheyenne, WY
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Sorry I never heard about that mani nor throttle body. But you are getting in deeper and I would start looking into so head work really soon. I would maybe look into a ECU upgrade....
2000 Turbo Integra Type R - 508whp/362lbs tq @ 21psi
2003 Imola/Imola NSX-T
http://www.jdmwhoreinc.com
2003 Imola/Imola NSX-T
http://www.jdmwhoreinc.com
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Erik B
- Senior ITRCA Member
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: September 18th, 2002, 12:29 am
- Location: Cheyenne, WY
- Contact:
Yeah a Spoon head gasket and while you have the head off that would be a good time to do the springs, cams etc.....ITR retainers are good till about 9200rpms...anything after that I would look into so taitanium retainers.....
2000 Turbo Integra Type R - 508whp/362lbs tq @ 21psi
2003 Imola/Imola NSX-T
http://www.jdmwhoreinc.com
2003 Imola/Imola NSX-T
http://www.jdmwhoreinc.com
You have a couple of choices for camshafts. If you just want a Stage 1 mild upgrade, I'd recommend the Civic Type R intake cam (leave your ITR exhaust cam and move your stock intake springs to exhaust side and use the CTR intake springs or upgrade the whole lot of 'em to titanium). May as well stick with OEM, they're tough bastards and resist wearing on the lobes better.
Stage 2 or 3, you have your choice of intake and exhaust cams from Spoon, Toda and Skunk2
Stage 2 or 3, you have your choice of intake and exhaust cams from Spoon, Toda and Skunk2
yeah, well when i redo the head i am gonna go with a spoon or mugen head gasket. i think the mugen is cheeper by a little. As far as cams i was looking into the skunk2 stage 2 or i am trying to find out about the crane stage 2's. As far as the valves go i am most likely gonna go with Ferrea , probably the springs and retainers too. what is a better material for valves titanium or stainless steel ?
Wow, Kabob, I'm not sure where you got your recomendations for head mods, but whom ever told you all this, was very well un-informed, you may wanna quickly go back and slap him in the back of the head. And for anyone else wondering here is a couple things you may want to.
First, ITR intake and exhaust springs are identical, so switching them would be a great way to waste time.
Second, ITR retainers are NOT good till 9200rpm, safely you could crank out about 8800 on a regular basis, and probably not sweat it. Your factory tach is off, so if you're looking at tach rpm, then your looking at it inaccurately, your redline at about 9K on your car, is really closer to about 8480rpm.
Third, CTR and 00' and 01' ITR cams, are exactly identical on both the intake and exhaust cams.
Fourth, switching your head gasket will not in any way put more stress on your valve springs, so new springs are not necesary unless you do cams, or plan on going higher in the rpm range than you have your factory rev limiter set at.
Fifth, none of the head gaskets on the market actually raise your compression that much higher where it's worth doing by it self, unless you plan to also do a lot of other stuff to your head at the same time. On a side note, it's actually cheaper to get your head milled (shaved) about thirty thousandths, than it is to get a head gasket from a big name japanese company, and will give you a good deal higher compression. Which either way, is still sorta a half assed way of getting compression.
Sixth, CTR springs are, and always have been, the same as ITR valve springs...and on a seperate note, there is no such thing as titanium valve springs, that was a slip up in "Fast and the Furious" that only a few people caught, and the rest just took as good advice...hehehhehhe.
Seventh, your retainers nor your springs actually touch your cams, so they wouldn't resist lobe wear any better than any thing else, what you are thinking of is rockers, and the only companies that makes after market rockers any way is crower, crane, and Toda, and they are all meant to work in conjunction with V-tec kiler cams, which require loads of other stuff. The only reason why after market springs might cause more lobe wear is beucase they're a bit stiffer, and therefor the cam and rocker is working a little harder to push the retainers which in turn then compress the springs
Eighth, Your stock valve train will work fine with Skunk2 stage 1 cams as long as you don't change your rev limiter, in which case you'll want to invest in a set of Ti retainers, and some stiffer springs.
Nineth, Stainless steel valves are a bit heavier that Ti valves, but at 1/3 of the cost and 1/100 of the maintenence; you should NOT get Ti valves under any circumstances. A set of Ti valves will need to be custom made for your car by either Ferrea or Impo, and in either case, they'll probably cost you well over a thousand dollars, and will need to be taken out and re-angled every few weeks. The only use for Ti valves is on very serious race cars that never really see the street, in fact, I think I've only ever seen them on 2 cars in all the years that i've been racing and dealing with cars.
Also, just to let you guys know, after market valves really are not necesary on an all motor car, and will really not likely give you any power increase, nor a lot of added stability, unless of course you decide to go turbo. As I said though, the stock Sodium filled ITR valves are just fine, and will with no probs rev to 9500 all day long...
Lastly, to sum up all your questions as best as I can:
The victor X manifold makes a good turbo manifold, but very un-necesary for an all motor car, keeping in mind that the worlds fastest all motor honda uses a modified GS-R manifold. As far as TB goes, it's not a bad idea, provided that you've done enough head work in order to make the car fill that much more volume as far as air flow goes. What I would suggest is the deal King motorsports has going, for only $150, they'll modify your TB to make in 66mm instead of 62mm, and for an extra $100, they'll cut a gasket, and modify your intake manifold to work with it, so for about the price of just an after market TB by it self, you can have both the manifold done and the TB shipped to your door. Well worth the moolah if you asked me.
As far as the CTR camshafts go, don't waste your money, they're exactly the same cams as your stock assuming you have a 00' or 01'. Even if you do have a 97' or 98', they're really not different enough to make worth changing, especailly as you could spend a couple hundred more and get some Skunk2 cams.
I would go with your original suggestion of Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, I've been very happy with mine, just keep in mind to run those cams, you will need springs and retainers, and to get the most out of them, you'll need to do a number of other things, starting with an ECU upgrade of some sort. As far as compression goes, you may want to look into saving your money and getting pistons, it's really worth the added money and hassle. Realistically, you won't get what you're looking for out of a head gasket, frankly it just won't give you the HP you're looking for. Also, with a thinner head gasket, you stand a much higher changce of blowing a head gasket if your car ever over heats. The whole purpose behind raising your compression higher is to push larger cams, and though compression by it self will give you power, it's more beneficial in conjunction with cams, in fact, without a good deal on compression, most good all motor cams, won't make nearly as much power.
Remeber, it's not a good idea to do things half assed, in cars, you really get what you pay for, and looking at the cheap way out, often costs you a lot more later on down the line.
If you want some good advice on some steps you can take that aren't way over kill, email me, or post something, and I'll be happy to help, otherwise, this post is already way too long.
Later guys,
Aj
First, ITR intake and exhaust springs are identical, so switching them would be a great way to waste time.
Second, ITR retainers are NOT good till 9200rpm, safely you could crank out about 8800 on a regular basis, and probably not sweat it. Your factory tach is off, so if you're looking at tach rpm, then your looking at it inaccurately, your redline at about 9K on your car, is really closer to about 8480rpm.
Third, CTR and 00' and 01' ITR cams, are exactly identical on both the intake and exhaust cams.
Fourth, switching your head gasket will not in any way put more stress on your valve springs, so new springs are not necesary unless you do cams, or plan on going higher in the rpm range than you have your factory rev limiter set at.
Fifth, none of the head gaskets on the market actually raise your compression that much higher where it's worth doing by it self, unless you plan to also do a lot of other stuff to your head at the same time. On a side note, it's actually cheaper to get your head milled (shaved) about thirty thousandths, than it is to get a head gasket from a big name japanese company, and will give you a good deal higher compression. Which either way, is still sorta a half assed way of getting compression.
Sixth, CTR springs are, and always have been, the same as ITR valve springs...and on a seperate note, there is no such thing as titanium valve springs, that was a slip up in "Fast and the Furious" that only a few people caught, and the rest just took as good advice...hehehhehhe.
Seventh, your retainers nor your springs actually touch your cams, so they wouldn't resist lobe wear any better than any thing else, what you are thinking of is rockers, and the only companies that makes after market rockers any way is crower, crane, and Toda, and they are all meant to work in conjunction with V-tec kiler cams, which require loads of other stuff. The only reason why after market springs might cause more lobe wear is beucase they're a bit stiffer, and therefor the cam and rocker is working a little harder to push the retainers which in turn then compress the springs
Eighth, Your stock valve train will work fine with Skunk2 stage 1 cams as long as you don't change your rev limiter, in which case you'll want to invest in a set of Ti retainers, and some stiffer springs.
Nineth, Stainless steel valves are a bit heavier that Ti valves, but at 1/3 of the cost and 1/100 of the maintenence; you should NOT get Ti valves under any circumstances. A set of Ti valves will need to be custom made for your car by either Ferrea or Impo, and in either case, they'll probably cost you well over a thousand dollars, and will need to be taken out and re-angled every few weeks. The only use for Ti valves is on very serious race cars that never really see the street, in fact, I think I've only ever seen them on 2 cars in all the years that i've been racing and dealing with cars.
Also, just to let you guys know, after market valves really are not necesary on an all motor car, and will really not likely give you any power increase, nor a lot of added stability, unless of course you decide to go turbo. As I said though, the stock Sodium filled ITR valves are just fine, and will with no probs rev to 9500 all day long...
Lastly, to sum up all your questions as best as I can:
The victor X manifold makes a good turbo manifold, but very un-necesary for an all motor car, keeping in mind that the worlds fastest all motor honda uses a modified GS-R manifold. As far as TB goes, it's not a bad idea, provided that you've done enough head work in order to make the car fill that much more volume as far as air flow goes. What I would suggest is the deal King motorsports has going, for only $150, they'll modify your TB to make in 66mm instead of 62mm, and for an extra $100, they'll cut a gasket, and modify your intake manifold to work with it, so for about the price of just an after market TB by it self, you can have both the manifold done and the TB shipped to your door. Well worth the moolah if you asked me.
As far as the CTR camshafts go, don't waste your money, they're exactly the same cams as your stock assuming you have a 00' or 01'. Even if you do have a 97' or 98', they're really not different enough to make worth changing, especailly as you could spend a couple hundred more and get some Skunk2 cams.
I would go with your original suggestion of Skunk2 Stage 2 cams, I've been very happy with mine, just keep in mind to run those cams, you will need springs and retainers, and to get the most out of them, you'll need to do a number of other things, starting with an ECU upgrade of some sort. As far as compression goes, you may want to look into saving your money and getting pistons, it's really worth the added money and hassle. Realistically, you won't get what you're looking for out of a head gasket, frankly it just won't give you the HP you're looking for. Also, with a thinner head gasket, you stand a much higher changce of blowing a head gasket if your car ever over heats. The whole purpose behind raising your compression higher is to push larger cams, and though compression by it self will give you power, it's more beneficial in conjunction with cams, in fact, without a good deal on compression, most good all motor cams, won't make nearly as much power.
Remeber, it's not a good idea to do things half assed, in cars, you really get what you pay for, and looking at the cheap way out, often costs you a lot more later on down the line.
If you want some good advice on some steps you can take that aren't way over kill, email me, or post something, and I'll be happy to help, otherwise, this post is already way too long.
Later guys,
Aj
I'd heard what I heard from multiple Honda "gurus", but Aj, you sound so much more intelligent than my other Honda sources, it's scary 
Thanks for the good info, bud! I'm still new to this whole normally-aspirated performance build-up thing since that only seems to make good power on Hondas and I've only owned my ITR for 7 months
Good info and thanks again!
Thanks for the good info, bud! I'm still new to this whole normally-aspirated performance build-up thing since that only seems to make good power on Hondas and I've only owned my ITR for 7 months Good info and thanks again!
Yeah i agree, Aj you totally know your engines, if your gonna be at the expo, and i can make it , i will be looking for your help for a bad ass all motor setup. also what kind of suspension are you using. and would you reccommend springs and struts, or coilovers. i was thinking about the eibach pro-kit(in NJ cant go any lower) with either bilsteins or tokico illuminas. give me your wisdom. thanx man
chris
01 itr #636
chris
01 itr #636
Now I do know suspensions and I'd stick with the stock units until you can afford Tein, Zeal or any other high-quality coilover setup. The ITR suspension is the best compromise of street and track drivability I've ever been in. The harsh ride of springs and aftermarket shocks just doesn't justify the iffy gain in performance. Unless all you wanted to do was lower the ride height 
well, of course i would rather have a great handling car. how much do those setups go for? the reason is b4 my R i had a vr-6 jetta and had eibachs and bilsteins and it performed really great. althouh i know i am in a way higher class of performance vehicle. well thanx kabob, any other help you can supply would be great.
Well, coilovers are not cheap, lol.
A good set of coilovers from Tein will run you about $1200-$1600 brand new though I've seen a set go for as low as $900 used. I'll be buying new, though. I don't really trust a used set of shocks or coilovers as I don't know if the guy is giving me all the special adjustment/alignment tools or if they've been abused. I haven't priced any of the other brands, though. With a hookup, you should be able to get a set of Tein Flex which is an excellent street comfort set of coilovers for around $1250-ish (retail is $1430). I was thinking of getting a set of Tein RA but they're a bit pricey at $1650. I'll see if/when I wear out my stock suspension.
A good set of coilovers from Tein will run you about $1200-$1600 brand new though I've seen a set go for as low as $900 used. I'll be buying new, though. I don't really trust a used set of shocks or coilovers as I don't know if the guy is giving me all the special adjustment/alignment tools or if they've been abused. I haven't priced any of the other brands, though. With a hookup, you should be able to get a set of Tein Flex which is an excellent street comfort set of coilovers for around $1250-ish (retail is $1430). I was thinking of getting a set of Tein RA but they're a bit pricey at $1650. I'll see if/when I wear out my stock suspension.
I'm with Kabob on this one, a set of coilovers is really the way to go. i've tried a lot of suspension combos, and found that nothing replaces a good set of coilovers. On a side note, the reason why you're VW handled so well on Billsteins, is becuase the stock struts are terrible, and really need the improvement, where the ITR is a race inspired suspension that is actually functional to it's purpose.
Any way, to answer your question, I run a set of Ohlins race coilovers, which as much as I love them, I would not recomend them as a starter set of coilovers, they're a real investment at 3800 bucks, and unless you really track your car a lot, it's really not worth the cash, you'd be far better off with a less expensive set like H&R, Bilstein, Tien, Zeal, etc..
There are a number of great coilovers on the market, if you need some suggestions, by all means, there are a number of guys who have pretty much tried everything at some point in time or another, feel free to ask, at the very least, I'll give you my honest opinion.
Later,
Aj
Any way, to answer your question, I run a set of Ohlins race coilovers, which as much as I love them, I would not recomend them as a starter set of coilovers, they're a real investment at 3800 bucks, and unless you really track your car a lot, it's really not worth the cash, you'd be far better off with a less expensive set like H&R, Bilstein, Tien, Zeal, etc..
There are a number of great coilovers on the market, if you need some suggestions, by all means, there are a number of guys who have pretty much tried everything at some point in time or another, feel free to ask, at the very least, I'll give you my honest opinion.
Later,
Aj