Auto-x, road race brake pads?

00TypeR · Post by **00TypeR** » October 25th, 2003, 12:23 am

what pads do you guys use for road racing and auto-x?

which do you prefer?

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 26th, 2003, 6:23 pm

For street and autox I use OEM pads.

for road courses I use Hawk Blues.

There are a number of good pads out there though, I'd suggest trying a few good sets from Cobalt Friction (an ITR Expo 2003 and 2004 sponsor) after talking to them about your needs. They'll be able to suggest a good starting point for you.

Post by **Trey** » October 27th, 2003, 10:12 am

I use Cobalt GT Sports on the Street and Auto-X

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » October 28th, 2003, 12:56 pm

For autocross the best linear feel I have had were with the Hawk HP+. Foe mild lapping they work fine too.
For intense track days or a competitive Time Trial I opt for the Hawk Blues as they require less braking pressure for equal stopping distance and tend to fade less.
For the street in the summer I keep my HP+ all the time and then when the snow falls I slap on either HPS or OE, whatever is kicking around.

I do a lot of varying driving so I like to have the best for each situation but quite honestly the HP+ will work in all situation quite well....except winter conditions.
BTW, i have used the Cobalt GT sport as recommend by Andie at Expo 3 but I felt they were just off the performance of the HP+, maybe its just me but they also would be a good buy.
I have yet to try the Spec VR which is suppose to ressemble Blues without the nasty features. I'll report on those when I get my hands on a set...and when the winter disappears.

Post by **Trey** » October 28th, 2003, 1:12 pm

I useedse the Hawk HP+ till I tried the Cobalt GT Sports. The Initial bite is as good or better and the modulation (control) you have is much better. I like the pads a lot and Cobalt helps ITRCA so much I have no issue helping them back by using a superior product.

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » October 28th, 2003, 3:39 pm

You are right on the money with the comment of Andie's support of the club. In fact I enjoyed my conversation with him in April because I had yet to find someone selling brakes that knowledgable in the field.
I mention Hawk brakes often because at our shop we test and install many brands on many different vehicules, most of which I road test myself, and Hawks keep coming back as customer favorites when properly applied. For my part, I have gone thru or tested over 7 compounds alone on my ITR.
I didn't think it would be an issue(mentioning and recommending) here on the forum( Cobalt vs Hawk) as I know Andie sells Hawk also.
My answers are usually backed by comments and on track experience that maybe will help ITRCA members chose wisely.
You do realize that products are ever changing and good recommendations come from ongoing testing so that is why I answer almost all braking inquiries here and on Honda-tech.

Trey, don't get me wrong, I will support any business that supports the racing and club activities I choose to particpate in...Colbalt being one of those, but where ITRCA will stand out among other forums is if answers to questions have some flavor and different outcomes.
You know it is tiresome to follow a thread that has a dozen replies just saying 'thumbsup'.........
Anyhow, keep up the good work on the site and looking forward to EXPO4

Post by **Trey** » October 28th, 2003, 3:54 pm

Didn't mean it like that Carl.

Based on what I have used and then what I know from feedback and limited use I woudl say this for an Auto-X street standpoint.

Cobalt GT Sport
Hawk HP+
Hawk HP
Axxis Ultimate

I honestly would use nothing less than the HP+. Hawk makes a fine pad (pull the backing plates off first so you don't have to later). I used HP+ pads for about 3 years before I switched. They were good enough I never felt the need to try others like the Porterfields which I am sure are good. I avoid EBC like the plague based on freinds expereiences although some enjoy them

I run Ferodo DS3000 on the track and like them better than Hawk Blues as the bite is more predictable but the Hawk Blue from a Price stand point and performance is a second choice for me. Hawk blues in rain will ruin a wheel.

I feel a Hawk HP+ or Cobalt GT Sport is a find lapping day pad for a Novice or Intermediate. By the time you are a seasoned intermediate opr advanced student you will know you need more brakes than you have.

I did not intend to sound short sighted just to say that i feel the Cobalt Sreet pad is the best i have used and that included the HP+. That said the HP+ is a close competitor but when you get the sort of service from cobalt that you don't from hawk as a consumer it makes me excited to spread the word.

That said if you have an R even OEM pads are ok but I have seen them burn up on a track but for stree/auto-x they will work well too.

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 28th, 2003, 4:51 pm

Trey wrote:Hawk blues in rain will ruin a wheel.

lol

daily driven on blues here. no perm damage to wheels or body paint. sure, after enough clay bar sessions there will be, but just don't wash the car then

So far, I haven't found a pad I like more than blues. They are out there, no doubt, but I haven't found them. I've found equal pads, but since I can't get blues to fail they are always good enough for me.

For the show car whores I wouldn't suggest ferrous based pads like hawks though.

If I ever do put the pos back on a track I'll probably try the ferodo ds3000's once my stock of blue 9012 pads are gone.

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » October 28th, 2003, 7:43 pm

I know you didn't Trey, I was just expanding on my comments for the benefit of the members. As usual, you have valid points, and the one i like to say the most is that, when you have an ITR...OE is just fine , for the street.

DAWHITEBOY.....you friggin' crazy to run Blues in the street

Last time I did that with my CRX, I went thru Brembo blanks in 3 weeks...street only...no track....to the ventilation....!!!!!!!!

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 28th, 2003, 8:01 pm

bbqman wrote:DAWHITEBOY.....you friggin' crazy to run Blues in the street
Last time I did that with my CRX, I went thru Brembo blanks in 3 weeks...street only...no track....to the ventilation....!!!!!!!!

3 weeks? damn man, warm em up first. I've used them for months on end without killing the rotor or pad.

TypeR 801 · Post by **TypeR 801** » October 29th, 2003, 11:36 am

You could add Porterfield R4-S to that group as well. Very comparable to the others listed.

Trey wrote:Didn't mean it like that Carl.

Based on what I have used and then what I know from feedback and limited use I woudl say this for an Auto-X street standpoint.

Cobalt GT Sport
Hawk HP+
Hawk HP
Axxis Ultimate

I honestly would use nothing less than the HP+. Hawk makes a fine pad (pull the backing plates off first so you don't have to later). I used HP+ pads for about 3 years before I switched. They were good enough I never felt the need to try others like the Porterfields which I am sure are good. I avoid EBC like the plague based on freinds expereiences although some enjoy them

I run Ferodo DS3000 on the track and like them better than Hawk Blues as the bite is more predictable but the Hawk Blue from a Price stand point and performance is a second choice for me. Hawk blues in rain will ruin a wheel.

I feel a Hawk HP+ or Cobalt GT Sport is a find lapping day pad for a Novice or Intermediate. By the time you are a seasoned intermediate opr advanced student you will know you need more brakes than you have.

I did not intend to sound short sighted just to say that i feel the Cobalt Sreet pad is the best i have used and that included the HP+. That said the HP+ is a close competitor but when you get the sort of service from cobalt that you don't from hawk as a consumer it makes me excited to spread the word.

That said if you have an R even OEM pads are ok but I have seen them burn up on a track but for stree/auto-x they will work well too.

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 29th, 2003, 12:01 pm

TypeR 801 wrote:You could add Porterfield R4-S to that group as well. Very comparable to the others listed.

R4-S pads are ok at best in my personal opinion. R4's are shit (not the shit, just shit).

Just my opinion based on my experience with them.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » October 30th, 2003, 4:04 pm

Dave-ROR wrote:
Trey wrote:Hawk blues in rain will ruin a wheel.
lol

daily driven on blues here. no perm damage to wheels or body paint. sure, after enough clay bar sessions there will be, but just don't wash the car then

I will say 2 things:

1) I've run stock, HP+, and hawk blues on the track & I think starting with the HP+ works well, but the blues are definately better

2) I raced with the blues in the rain & didn't wash the muck off immediately after the event...a few days later I spent 4 hours trying to get the brake dust/muck off the wheels & still can't do it. I tried ~6-8 chemicals including rubbing compound different brushes, etc to no avail...I'm going with the Spec VR's next - no cleaning issues that I've heard.

peace

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 30th, 2003, 5:07 pm

Jeff: for the body paint, clay bar. for the wheels, that acid that I can't spell.

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » October 31st, 2003, 9:03 am

Dave-ROR wrote:Jeff: for the body paint, clay bar. for the wheels, that acid that I can't spell.

spell it like craig, cause I love my track wheels & it pissed me off when I couldn't get the crap off. I need to know! Thanks bro.

Post by **Dave-ROR** » October 31st, 2003, 11:24 am

BudMan wrote:spell it like craig, cause I love my track wheels & it pissed me off when I couldn't get the crap off. I need to know! Thanks bro.

ok..

Neuratic Acid

it's bad shit though, be careful with it

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » October 31st, 2003, 1:15 pm

Can you say "science experiment"??? **bwuaaahahahaa**

Thanks for the scoop.

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » November 3rd, 2003, 2:03 pm

Dave-ROR wrote: ok..

Neuratic Acid

it's bad shit though, be careful with it

Think you mean ...Muratic Acid........

Post by **Dave-ROR** » November 3rd, 2003, 2:09 pm

bbqman wrote:Think you mean ...Muratic Acid........

lol possibly. he asked for the assdime method of spelling, so he got it. thanks for the correct spelling tho

bbqman · Post by **bbqman** » November 3rd, 2003, 2:11 pm

I,ll never forget that word...when I was younger, we used to wash our swimming pool with it every other year...needed gloves and whatever you do....don't breath that shit!!

Fletch_F355 · Post by **Fletch_F355** » January 24th, 2004, 2:55 am

I prefer Porterfield pads, I run them the F355 & ITR.
R4E's Work Great for track days and last a little longer than the R4.
R4S's Work Great for the Street!
That's my 2 cents.

fomoco · Post by **fomoco** » April 18th, 2006, 1:41 am

Would it work to wax the rims before you race so the brake dust doesnt stick? also whats the best pad to run on the street with a little autox in the mix? (concidering i drive the crap out of my car)

BudMan · Post by **BudMan** » April 18th, 2006, 7:45 am

fomoco wrote:Would it work to wax the rims before you race so the brake dust doesnt stick? also whats the best pad to run on the street with a little autox in the mix? (concidering i drive the crap out of my car)

Waxing won't help much. There are plenty of recommendations above to answer your question.

stock
hawk hp+
cobalt gt sports

All are good street/autox and some track recommendations by quality drivers I know personally.

Mugen Mike · Post by **Mugen Mike** » May 16th, 2006, 5:24 pm

I've been real happy with the Carbotech Panther Plus pads, and have heard lots of good things about the Cobalt GT pads also.